Bill Moyers did an interview with Tamim Ansary on our local PBS station
(State College, PA) last night.
Betsy Manlove (an admitted lurker)
Penn State
At 02:00 PM 9/19/01 -0400, you wrote:
>Martin, this note tends to extend your note and assist various
>petitions..in this lose - lose predicament..
>
> > > A friend has sent me a copy of this letter by Tamim Ansary,
> > > an Afghani-American writer connected with the Stanford medical
> > > school. I hope you'll find it worthwhile reading and thinking about it.
> > >
> > >
> > > -------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Who Has The Belly?
> > >
> > > I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the
> > > Stone Age." Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this
>would
> > > mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this
> > > atrocity,
> > > but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. What else can
>we
> > > do?" Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we "have
>the
> > > belly to do what must be done."
> > >
> > > And I thought about the issues being raised especially hard because I
>am
> > > from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived here for 35 years I've
>never
> > > lost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell anyone who will
> > > listen how it all looks from where I'm standing.
> > >
> > > I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. There is no
> > > doubt in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in
> > New
> > > York.
> > >
> > > I agree that something must be done about those monsters.
> > >
> > > But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the
> > > government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are a cult of ignorant
>psychotics
> > > who took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political criminal
>with
> > > a plan. When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden,
> > think
> > > Hitler. And when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews
>in
> > > the concentration camps." It's not only that the Afghan people had
>nothing
> > > to do with this atrocity. They were the first victims of the
>perpetrators.
> > >
> > > They would exult if someone would come in there, take out the Taliban
>and
> > > clear out the rats nest of international thugs holed up in their
>country.
> > >
> > > Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban? The
> > > answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering.
>A
> > > few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000
> > > disabled orphans in Afghanistan--a country with no economy, no food.
>There
> > > are
> > > millions of widows. And the Taliban has been burying these widows alive
>in
> > > mass graves. The soil is littered with land mines, the farms were all
> > > destroyed by the Soviets. These are a few of the reasons why the Afghan
> > > people have not overthrown the Taliban.
> > >
> > > We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone
>Age.
> > > Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already. Make
> > > the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses?
>Done.
> > > Turn
> > > their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their hospitals?
>Done.
> > > Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and health
>care?
> > > Too late. Someone already did all that.
> > >
> > > New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. Would they at
>least
> > > get
> > > the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat,
> > only
> > > they have
> > > the means to move around. They'd slip away and hide. Maybe the bombs
>would
> > > get
> > > some of those disabled orphans, they don't move too fast, they don't
>even
> > > have
> > > wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping bombs wouldn't really
>be a
> > > strike
> > > against the criminals who did this horrific thing.
> > >
> > > Actually it would only be making common cause with the Taliban--by
>raping
> > > once again the people they've been raping all this time. So what else
>is
> > > there? What can be done, then? Let me now speak with true fear and
> > > trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there with ground
> > > troops. When people speak of "having the belly to do what needs to be
> > > done" they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as
> > > needed.
> > > Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms about killing innocent
> > > people.
> > >
> > > Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's actually on the table is
> > > Americans dying. And not just because some Americans would die fighting
> > > their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's much bigger
> > > than that folks. Because to get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to
>go
> > > through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of
>Pakistan
> > > would have to be first. Will other Muslim nations just stand by?
> > >
> > > You see where I'm going. We're flirting with a world war between Islam
>and
> > > the West.
> > >
> > > And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he
>wants.
> > > That's why he did this. Read his speeches and statements. It's all
>right
> > > there. He really believes Islam would beat the west. It might seem
> > > ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and
>the
> > > West, he's
> > > got a billion soldiers. If the west wreaks a holocaust in those lands,
> > > that's
> > > a billion people with nothing left to lose, that's even better from Bin
> > > Laden's
> > > point of view. He's probably wrong, in the end the west would win,
> > whatever
> > > that
> > > would mean, but the war would last for years and millions would die,
>not
> > > just
> > > theirs but ours. Who has the belly for that?
> > >
> > > Bin Laden does. Anyone else?
> > >
> > > Tamim Ansary
> > > Department of Psychiatry & Behavioral Sciences
> > > Stanford University School of Medicine
> > > Stanford CA 94305-5723
> > > >>
> >
> >
>Return-Path: <cportes@prologis.co.jp>
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>From: "De Portes, Charles" <cportes@prologis.co.jp>
>To: "'aol1'" <cdeportes@aol.com>
>Subject: FW: [Fwd: FW: An interesting letter on Afghanistan]
>Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 14:40:16 +0900
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21)
>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
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>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Millman, Milton
>[<mailto:Milton.Millman@gs.com>mailto:Milton.Millman@gs.com]
>Sent: mardi 18 septembre 2001 13:45
>Cc: 'lnewton@fsa.org'; 'jeffrey_g_millman@fleet.com';
>'petermillman@aol.com'; 'nlanza@blllaw.com'; 'deano99@hotmail.com';
>'ronald.elias@cityofhouston.net'; 'cportes@prologis.com'; Ackerman,
>Scott (Archon); Murphy, Ken (Archon); Mcgoldrick, Mark
>Subject: FW: [Fwd: FW: An interesting letter on Afghanistan]
>
>thought you might find this interesting.
>
>Milton Millman
>Goldman Sachs (Japan) Limited
>ARK Mori Bldg, 17F
>12-32, Akasaka, 1-chome
>Minato-ku, Tokyo 107-6005, Japan
>Phone 813.5403.6310
>Fax 813.5403.6301
>
>
> > A friend has sent me a copy of this letter by Tamim Ansary,
> > an Afghani-American writer connected with the Stanford medical
> > school. I hope you'll find it worthwhile reading and thinking about it.
> >
> > Best, Marc Raizman
> >
> > -------------------------------------------
> >
> > Who Has The Belly?
> >
> > I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the
> > Stone Age." Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this would
> > mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this
> > atrocity,
> > but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. What else can we
> > do?" Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we "have the
> > belly to do what must be done."
> >
> > And I thought about the issues being raised especially hard because I am
> > from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived here for 35 years I've never
> > lost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell anyone who will
> > listen how it all looks from where I'm standing.
> >
> > I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. There is no
> > doubt in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in
>New
> > York.
> >
> > I agree that something must be done about those monsters.
> >
> > But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the
> > government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics
> > who took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political criminal with
> > a plan. When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden,
>think
> > Hitler. And when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews in
> > the concentration camps." It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing
> > to do with this atrocity. They were the first victims of the perpetrators.
> >
> > They would exult if someone would come in there, take out the Taliban and
> > clear out the rats nest of international thugs holed up in their country.
> >
> > Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban? The
> > answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering. A
> > few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000
> > disabled orphans in Afghanistan--a country with no economy, no food. There
> > are
> > millions of widows. And the Taliban has been burying these widows alive in
> > mass graves. The soil is littered with land mines, the farms were all
> > destroyed by the Soviets. These are a few of the reasons why the Afghan
> > people have not overthrown the Taliban.
> >
> > We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age.
> > Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already. Make
> > the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses? Done.
> > Turn
> > their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their hospitals? Done.
> > Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and health care?
> > Too late. Someone already did all that.
> >
> > New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. Would they at least
> > get
> > the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat,
>only
> > they have
> > the means to move around. They'd slip away and hide. Maybe the bombs would
> > get
> > some of those disabled orphans, they don't move too fast, they don't even
> > have
> > wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping bombs wouldn't really be a
> > strike
> > against the criminals who did this horrific thing.
> >
> > Actually it would only be making common cause with the Taliban--by raping
> > once again the people they've been raping all this time. So what else is
> > there? What can be done, then? Let me now speak with true fear and
> > trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there with ground
> > troops. When people speak of "having the belly to do what needs to be
> > done" they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as
> > needed.
> > Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms about killing innocent
> > people.
> >
> > Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's actually on the table is
> > Americans dying. And not just because some Americans would die fighting
> > their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's much bigger
> > than that folks. Because to get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go
> > through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan
> > would have to be first. Will other Muslim nations just stand by?
> >
> > You see where I'm going. We're flirting with a world war between Islam and
> > the West.
> >
> > And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he wants.
> > That's why he did this. Read his speeches and statements. It's all right
> > there. He really believes Islam would beat the west. It might seem
> > ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and the
> > West, he's
> > got a billion soldiers. If the west wreaks a holocaust in those lands,
> > that's
> > a billion people with nothing left to lose, that's even better from Bin
> > Laden's
> > point of view. He's probably wrong, in the end the west would win,
>whatever
> > that
> > would mean, but the war would last for years and millions would die, not
> > just
> > theirs but ours. Who has the belly for that?
> >
> > Bin Laden does. Anyone else?
> >
> > Tamim Ansary
> > Department of Psychiatry & Behavioral Sciences
> > Stanford University School of Medicine
> > Stanford CA 94305-5723
> >
> > ---
Elizabeth E. Manlove, Ph.D.
Department of Human Development & Family Studies
110 Henderson Building South
The Pennsylvania State University
University Park, PA 16802-6504
814-865-2662 (telephone)
814-863-6207 (fax)
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Wed Oct 10 2001 - 15:49:19 PDT