Re: Ch 5 - Martin (Owen), Bill (was judy)

From: Judith Diamondstone (diamonju@rci.rutgers.edu)
Date: Fri Jun 15 2001 - 13:01:15 PDT


Martin, Bill, others

Martin states a cybernetic principle that applies perhaps somewhat
differently in our eco-social systems than in tidewaters. The
at-first-sight irrelevant comment or not-yet-relevant contribution requires
considerable collective time and effort to knit to a collective project.
Whether/ how institutions support or allow for collective projects is the
question. One institutional pathology high on my list of pathologies is
facade-maintenance as a leading object of activity (the _appearance_ of
diversity, of harmony, of whatever ethos, at the cost of actual, dynamic
movement in that direction -- performances of valuing some values, rather
than actualizing them in practice), but the matter of relevance + diversity
needs more empirical analysis of the kind LBE aims to model, I think.

Bowles & Gintis.... Martin, it was possible to imagine answers in them
days, wasn't it ....?

judy

At 05:59 PM 6/15/01 +0100, you wrote:
>Bill writes:
>> I interpret this is a call for what instruments, what forms
>>and models can be constructed that will contribute to richer
>>conceptualizations
>>of systems in which diversity is to be valued.
>
>
>I need to give your comments much more thoughts, especially as I found (in
>the UK) Bowles & Gintis useful in my Master's thesis too long ago, and I
>have not thought S in C A in CHAT terms. Having been in examining times, I
>have not got to Chapter 5 yet either.
>
>However there is a model which recognises the role of diversity in Ashby's
>Law of Necessary Variety: that in a situation of complexity N, you need
>variety N + 1 to cope with the situation. When viewed through Bateson's or
>Beer's cybernetic concepts, systems can respond to complexity either by
>closing down diversity or by increasing their variety.
>
>We can witness closing down diveristy as a classic classroom control
>technique by teachers, but moreover, it is a technique preferred by
>college (or all) administrators too. In the end the closed loop continues
>to attenuate itslef and activity diminshes to nothing. The alternative is
>to look for variety amplifiers. I think Bowels and Gintis describe a
>socialist approach in thier final chapter as one of mass self
>actualistaion... a massive increase in variety... the kind of self
>actualisation you describe in Cindy.
>
>I will read on Bill.
>
>Martin
>
>



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