Re: Re(2): Ideal - Ilyenkov

From: Judy Diamondstone (diamonju@rci.rutgers.edu)
Date: Sun Sep 03 2000 - 23:58:46 PDT


Revising my previous note --
in response to Andy who wrote:

>My understanding is that the concept of "intellect" is the result of
>abstracting from consciousness that side which accommodates itself to the
>ideal object, as opposed to *will*, that side of consciousness which takes
>the object as something to be subordinated; a concept made possible by the
>deveelopment of intellectual activities, separate from actually changing
>the world.

I wonder, if it IS possible to separate "will" from "that side [of
consciousness] wh. accommodates itself to the ideal object" --
if intellect stripped of will is possible. Walkerdine among others would
characterize intellect precisely as the willful reorganization of
spontaneous concepts in the mastery of reason.

Now, for those more familiar with Marxism than I, is this (the presumption
of a separation and opposing of will and intellect) warranted by the
theoretical assertion that the division of labor is THE basis of the ideal?

Andy also wrote, regarding the separation of "ideation" from the Ideal:

>I would add that it is not so much the "appearance" of consciousness and
>will, but the separation of the psyche into "intellect" and "will" as
>distinct, opposed mental activities.
AND
>
>I think at this point it is worth re-looking at Ilyenkov's advice to
>recognise the concept of 'ideal' as the importantly human entity, rather
>than 'consciousness'.

Nate's recent posting on the sociality of animals complicates the
explanation of what the demarcating line might be between humans/ animals.
I agree with Nate & others that it is our mediational means, the
objectified results of our labor (of all kinds) that distinguishes us from
KoKo -- but only because (as implied by Mike's ref. to the zpd in this
matter) we have been living within our objectified idealS for so long (all
of human hist, anyway)

judyt



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