Re: development question

Artin Goncu (goncu who-is-at uic.edu)
Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:30:59 -0500

--=====================_3935409==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Nate and others,
I am sending you the "Table of Contents" of "Children's engagement in the
world: sociocultural perspectives," hoping that it will give you an idea of
the
questions we addressed in it. Best regards, Artin =20
Part I. Introduction
1. Children=92s and researcher=92s engagement in the world
Artin G=F6nc=FC
Part II. Children=92s engagement in the world
2. Children=92s daily lives in a Mayan village: A case study of=
culturally
constructed roles and activities =20
Suzanne Gaskins
3. Cultural heterogeneity: Parental values and belifs and their
preschoolers=92 activities in the United States, South Korea, Russia, and
Estonia =20
Jonathan Tudge, Diane Hogan, Soeun Lee, Peeter Tammeveski, Marika
Meltsas, Natalya Kulakova, Irina Snezhkova, and Sarah Putnam
Part III. Children=92s engagement in play
4. Activity setting analysis: A model for examining the role of culture=
in
development =20
Jo Ann M. Farver
5. The pragmatics of caregiver-child pretending at home: Understanding
culturally specific socialization practices =20
Wendy L. Haight
6. Children=92s play as cultural activity =20
Artin G=F6nc=FC, Ute Tuermer, Jyoti Jain, and Danielle Johnson
Part IV. Children=92s engagement in planning, math, and literacy
7. Everyday opportunities for the development of planning skills:=20
Sociocultural and family influences =20
Mary Gauvain
8. Supportive environments for cognitive development: Illustrations from
children=92s mathematical activities outside of school =20
Steven R. Guberman
9. Becoming literate in the borderlands =20
Christine C. Pappas

At 07:37 AM 10/28/1999 -0500, you wrote:
>My inclination is that Elkind is a child centered humanist (the art) that
>attempts to validate that view through development as universal and
>cultural bias free (the science). In addition to Piaget, he has also
>incorporated a lot of Vygotsky or at least sees the debate between these
>two theorists. For example, in one of his videos after introducing various
>educational theorists, he spends the majority of his presentation on the
>developmental ideas of Vygotsky and Piaget.
>
>The comment, while provoking is logically safe, because by definition if it
>is not universal it is not developmental. As a humanist, if its Piaget's
>emphasis on constructive activity or Vygotsky's emphasis on play, Elkind
>sees them very much as universal, natural aspects of childhood. As
>Greenfield, in MCA v.6 # 2, implicitly hints at it takes capital or
>historical change for this natural child to be found. The Mayan
>mother/daughter interactions in the first generation research in some ways
>challenge the universal view, yet when capital is introduced the natural
>child, or myth of, which is consistant with developmental perspectives
>emerge. For me, Gaskins response was real useful, because the narrative I
>got from Greenfield was that somehow the natural, developmental child was
>tied to capital in a rather direct unquestioned way.
>
>In general, I would see Elkind as argueing for a natural, universal child
>which goes through developmental stages in a predictable way, and culture
>either supports the natural order of things (2nd generation Greenfield
>research) or distorts it in fundamental ways (1st generation Greenfield
>research). In contrast to Elkind, I would see "development" as having a
>cultural bias at its core which for me was apparent in the Greenfield
>piece.
>
>Another approach, which I generally see CHAT pointing to, is the material,
>contextual or activity situatedness of mind or "development" (change or
>transformation) in which rather than taking similarity (accross cultures)
>as its basis, focuses on difference of mind (within activity, culture etc.)
>in its own right without incorporating the pathology of development. From
>Mike's comments on Artin's book, which I have put my order in, my
>inclination is the book takes the discussion in this direction.
>
> /\ / /\ | /-----
> / \ / /__\ ---|--- /---
>/ \/ / \ | /----
>
>Nate Schmolze
>http://www.geocities.com/~nschmolze/
>schmolze who-is-at students.wisc.edu
>
>*******************************************************************
>"Pedogogics is never and was never politically indifferent,
>since, willingly or unwillingly, through its own work on the psyche,
>it has always adopted a particular social pattern, political line,
>in accordance with the dominant social class that has guided its
>interests".
>
> L.S. Vygotsky
>********************************************************************
>
>
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Bill Barowy <wbarowy who-is-at mail.lesley.edu>
>To: <xmca who-is-at weber.ucsd.edu>
>Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 9:29 PM
>Subject: Re: development question
>
>
>> Hi Ricardo,
>>
>> David Elkind has produced a number of videos for teacher preparation that
>> draw upon developmental approaches and his comment appeared in the one
>> called "Using what we know". The video claims to address Piagetian
>theory.
>> The video seemed provocative, and at the same time, it made some good
>> points that you don't expect to come from a pure Piagetian developmental
>> perspective. Maybe good fodder for discussion next semester. I'm hoping
>> that the "people in the know" on xmca ( recent discussions on play and
>> development indicate that there are many) may have insights to what
>Elkind
>> is about.
>>
>> BB
>>
>> >Would you please tell where (book, article etc) did you picked it up
>> >from him?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Bill Barowy wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Folks,
>> >>
>> >> I am looking for a little background on Elkind. When he says
>"development
>> >> is universal, and not culturally biased" what does he mean exactly?
>> >>
>> >> Thanks in advance,
>> >> BB
>>
>>
>> Bill Barowy, Associate Professor
>> Lesley College, 31 Everett Street, Cambridge, MA 02138-2790
>> Phone: 617-349-8168 / Fax: 617-349-8169
>> http://www.lesley.edu/faculty/wbarowy/Barowy.html
>> _______________________
>> "One of life's quiet excitements is to stand somewhat apart from yourself
>> and watch yourself softly become the author of something beautiful."
>> [Norman Maclean in "A river runs through it."]
>>
>>
>=20
Artin Goncu, Ph.D
Associate Professor
Coordinator, Early Childhood Education
University of Illinois at Chicago
College of Education M/C 147
1040 W. Harrison St.
Chicago, IL 60607
(312) 996-5259=20
--=====================_3935409==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Nate and others,
I am sending you the "Table of Contents" of "Children's engagement in the world: sociocultural perspectives," hoping that it will give you an idea of the questions we addressed in it.  Best regards, Artin     
Part I.  Introduction
1.    Children=92s and researcher=92s engagement in the world
      Artin G=F6nc=FC
Part II. Children=92s engagement in the world
2.    Children=92s daily lives in a Mayan village:  A case study of culturally  constructed roles and activities           =             &nbs= p;          
      Suzanne Gaskins
3.    Cultural heterogeneity:  Parental values and belifs and their     preschoolers=92 activities in the United States,  South Korea, Russia, and      Estonia      &nb= sp;            &= nbsp;   
      Jonathan Tudge, Diane Hogan, Soeun Lee, Peeter Tammeveski, Marika Meltsas, Natalya Kulakova, Irina    Snezhkova, and Sarah Putnam
Part III.  Children=92s engagement in play
4.    Activity setting analysis:  A model for examining the role of culture in      development      = ;            &nb= sp;
      Jo Ann M. Farver
5.    The pragmatics of caregiver-child pretending at home: Understanding     culturally specific socialization practices     
      Wendy L. Haight
6.    Children=92s play as cultural activity           &n= bsp;      
      Artin G=F6nc=FC, Ute Tuermer, Jyoti Jain= , and Danielle Johnson
Part IV.  Children=92s engagement in planning, math, and literacy
7.    Everyday opportunities for the development of planning skills:    Sociocultural and family influences       
      Mary Gauvain
8.    Supportive environments for cognitive development: Illustrations from   children=92s mathematical activities outside of school  
      Steven R. Guberman
9.    Becoming literate in the borderlands      
      Christine C. Pappas




At 07:37 AM 10/28/1999 -0500, you wrote:
>My inclination is that Elkind is a child centered humanist (the art) that
>attempts to validate that view through development as universal and
>cultural bias free (the science).  In addition to Piaget, he has also
>incorporated a lot of Vygotsky or at least sees the debate between these
>two theorists.  For example, in one of his videos after introducing various
>educational theorists, he spends the majority of his presentation on the
>developmental ideas of Vygotsky and Piaget.
>
>The comment, while provoking is logically safe, because by definition if it
>is not universal it is not developmental.  As a humanist, if its Piaget's
>emphasis on constructive activity or Vygotsky's emphasis on play, Elkind
>sees them very much as universal, natural aspects of childhood.  As
>Greenfield, in MCA v.6 # 2, implicitly hints at it takes capital or
>historical change for this natural child to be found.  The Mayan
>mother/daughter interactions in the first generation research in some ways
>challenge the universal view, yet when capital is introduced the natural
>child, or myth of, which is consistant with developmental perspectives
>emerge. For me, Gaskins response was real useful, because the narrative I
>got from Greenfield was that somehow the natural, developmental child was
>tied to capital in a rather direct unquestioned way.
>
>In general, I would see Elkind as argueing for a natural, universal child
>which goes through developmental stages in a predictable way, and culture
>either supports the natural order of things (2nd generation Greenfield
>research) or distorts it in fundamental ways (1st generation Greenfield
>research).  In contrast to Elkind, I would see "development" as having a
>cultural bias at its core which for me was apparent in the Greenfield
>piece.
>
>Another approach, which I generally see CHAT pointing to, is the material,
>contextual or activity situatedness of mind or "development" (change or
>transformation) in which rather than taking similarity (accross cultures)
>as its basis, focuses on difference of mind (within activity, culture etc.)
>in its own right without incorporating the pathology of development.  From
>Mike's comments on Artin's book, which I have put my order in, my
>inclination is the book takes the discussion in this direction.
>
>    /\       /   /\        |       /-----
>  /    \   /   /__\  ---|---  /---
>/       \/   /        \    |    /----
>
>Nate Schmolze
>http://www.geocities.com/~nschmolze/
>schmolze who-is-at students.wisc.edu
>
>*******************************************************************
>"Pedogogics is never and was never politically=20 indifferent,
>since, willingly or unwillingly, through its own work on the psyche,
>it has always adopted a particular social pattern, political line,
>in accordance with the dominant social class that has guided=20 its
>interests".
>
>            =             &nbs= p;            &n= bsp;       L.S. Vygotsky
>********************************************************************
>
>
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Bill Barowy <wbarowy who-is-at mail.lesley.edu>
>To: <xmca who-is-at weber.ucsd.edu>
>Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 9:29 PM
>Subject: Re: development question
>
>
>> Hi Ricardo,
>>
>> David Elkind has produced a number of videos for teacher preparation that
>> draw upon  developmental approaches and his comment appeared in the one
>> called "Using what we know".  The video claims to address Piagetian
>theory.
>> The video seemed provocative, and at the same time, it made some good
>> points that you don't expect to come from a pure Piagetian developmental
>> perspective.  Maybe good fodder for discussion next semester.  I'm hoping
>> that the "people in the know" on xmca ( recent discussions on play and
>> development indicate that there are many)  may have insights to what
>Elkind
>> is about.
>>
>> BB
>>
>> >Would you please tell where (book, article etc) did you picked it up
>> >from him?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Bill Barowy wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Folks,
>> >>
>> >> I am looking for a little background on Elkind.  When he says
>"development
>> >> is universal, and not culturally biased"  what does he mean exactly?
>> >>
>> >> Thanks in advance,
>> >> BB
>>
>>
>> Bill Barowy, Associate Professor
>> Lesley College, 31 Everett Street, Cambridge, MA=20 02138-2790
>> Phone: 617-349-8168  / Fax: 617-349-8169
>> http://www.lesley.edu/faculty/wbarowy/Barowy.html >> _______________________
>> "One of life's quiet excitements is to stand somewhat apart from yourself
>>  and watch yourself softly become the author of something beautiful."
>> [Norman Maclean in "A river runs through it."]
>>
>>
>

Artin Goncu, Ph.D
Associate Professor
Coordinator, Early Childhood Education
University of Illinois at Chicago
College of Education M/C 147
1040 W. Harrison St.
Chicago, IL 60607
(312) 996-5259

--=====================_3935409==_.ALT--