RE: Expert and novice: Tales for 5th Dim

Eugene Matusov (ematusov who-is-at UDel.Edu)
Mon, 31 May 1999 12:42:32 -0400

Hi Nate and everybody--

You asked, "I am confused, isn't that what the expert/novice script is
saying."

No, it wasn't (at least in my interpretation). Let's me give an example
from the script,

> Expert: Tend to anticipate when a child needs help before he asks
> Novice: Will wait to be asked by the child to provide assistance

I observed some seasoned students in our Le Red Magica project in Delaware,
when sensitive guidance meant to wait until a child asks for help. I know it
is confusing but the most generalizing statement about how to help kids
involving in afterschool activities is "it depends." Mike Cole did a good
job elaborating on "it depends" statement but I have only his video text.

What do you think?

Eugene
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nate [mailto:schmolze@students.wisc.edu]
> Sent: Sunday, May 30, 1999 9:44 PM
> To: XMCA
> Subject: Re: Expert and novice: Tales for 5th Dim
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Eugene Matusov <ematusov who-is-at UDel.Edu>
> To: <xmca who-is-at weber.ucsd.edu>
> Cc: Renee Hayes <rhayes who-is-at UDel.Edu>; Leda Echevers <ledita@UDel.Edu>; Mark
> Smith <mpsmith who-is-at cwv.net>; John St. Julien <stjulien@UDel.Edu>
> Sent: Sunday, May 30, 1999 4:35 PM
> Subject: Expert and novice: Tales for 5th Dim
>
>
> > In my experience and observations in the project, you can reverse
> everything
> > that Expert said there and it is still will be Expert's highly valuable
> > claims. I think that wisdom of expert (which I see as an experienced
> > novice) is to understand that statements make sense only in an
> appropriate
> > context which often has a dynamic character. When some novices
> seek for a
> > stable universal rule, many seasoned participants look for priorities
> that
> > guide them in specific circumstances and themselves are dynamic, shared,
> > negotiable, and interpretative.
> >
> > What do you think?
>
> I am confused, isn't that what the expert/novice script is saying. I
> always read it against DAPism, which fills many of the novice's
> roles. The
> expert being decisions relating to a dynamic context and novices applying
> broad generalizations about learning and development.
> >
> > Eugene
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nate [mailto:schmolze@students.wisc.edu]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 8:00 PM
> > > To: xmca who-is-at weber.ucsd.edu
> > > Subject: Re: the calculus wars
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Timothy Koschmann <tkoschmann who-is-at acm.org>
> > > To: <xmca who-is-at weber.ucsd.edu>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 3:03 PM
> > > Subject: Re: the calculus wars
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Your perception of the PBL tutor/coach's role is accurate to the
> extent
> > > > that faculty members when in this role are discouraged from telling
> what
> > > > they know, but you should realize that there are multiple faculty
> roles
> > > in
> > > > PBL. Once students have formulated a "learning issue" (i.e.,
> > > recognized
> > > > that there is something that they need to know), they are encouraged
> to
> > > > utilize faculty as resources along with reference works, journals,
> the
> > > > Internet, and anything else they can think of. Tutor/coaches do
> > > facilitate
> > > > inquiry and do model appropriate strategies for problem solving, but
> an
> > > > important part of the method is that at no point does the
> tutor/coach
> > > tell
> > > > the students "This is something that you need to learn."
> > > > ---Tim
> > > >
> > > I took a math math class awhile back that was very similar to the PBL
> > > approach. I interpreted the Dean's style as playing mind games. My
> > > experience in the School of Education is most students get very
> resentful
> > > at such a pedagogical style. It IMHO is based on an outdated form of
> > > constructivism in which the teacher is simply unfolding cognitive
> > > structures inside the head. If we see our students as "humans"
> > > it seems to
> > > me it would go against either extreme. In this sense I would
> go so far
> to
> > > argue such an approach is very inauthentic.
> > >
> > > For example; if we are in a conversation on xcma, for example, and
> someone
> > > has an inquiry we do not sit back and wonder how to set the question
> asker
> > > on some sort of problem solving trajectory. In everyday conversation
> we
> > > don't think that way. If I ask someone who has read a mutual book a
> > > question, I would become upset if their response was withheld because
> they
> > > did not want to get in the way of my learning. For me, I see both
> extreme
> > > forms of constructivism and teacher directed teaching as forms of
> control.
> > > In teacher directed classrooms knowledge is only in the teachers head,
> and
> > > in constructivism its still in the teachers head but is
> approached as a
> > > mind game of the teacher guessing what is inside the head. Everyday
> > > conversations normally does not go to either extreme.
> > >
> > > In a more Foucaultian framework such approaches of the "students need
> to
> > > learn" is seen as the use of power through decenterism. My problem
> with
> > > PBL is not so much the practice in itself, but the ideology and
> > > assumptions
> > > about learning behind such an approach. It is actually ideologically
> very
> > > congruent with Socrates. A belief that education is simply an
> > > unfolding of
> > > universal, innate cognitive abilities. Such an approach it
> seems would
> > > also convey a teacher as observer rather than a participant in
> learning.
> > > For me an good educational context is one where its difficult to
> > > distinguish what part of the activity is teacher centered or student
> > > centered.
> > >
> > > Such an example is below with the differentiation of
> novice/expert from
> 5D
> > > Clearinghouse.
> > >
> > > Expert: Do not assume that a child has understood something he or she
> has
> > > read on the computer screen or in the Adventure Guide
> > > Novice: Rely upon the computer or Adventure Guide to instruct
> > >
> > > Expert: See the task as a joint activity and will use words like
> > > "Why don't
> > > we try this?"
> > > Novice: See the task as being the primary responsibility of the child
> > >
> > > Expert: Tend to anticipate when a child needs help before he asks
> > > Novice: Will wait to be asked by the child to provide assistance
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www.ced.appstate.edu/projects/5dClhse/tehome.html
> > >
> > > I see the example as a challenge to both teacher directed and
> neo-student
> > > centered environments.
> > >
> > > Nate
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>