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[Xmca-l] Re: Hegel on Action



Hello Greg, thank you so much for the references - they'd be very useful to
two manuscripts I've been writing for MCA (planned to finish off after
ISCAR conference).

Best wishes, James

*_____________________________________*

*James Ma*  *https://oxford.academia.edu/JamesMa
<https://oxford.academia.edu/JamesMa>*



On 15 July 2017 at 19:50, Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com> wrote:

> James,
> I agree that vygotsky, Saussure, and Pierce are playing in the same general
> activity (semiotics/semiology), but I think they are playing very different
> games. The strongest contrast seems to be between pierce and Saussure, and
> with radical and important consequences. Benjamin Lee's book Talking Heads
> is fantastic at sussing out this difference, and Webb Keane has also done
> some excellent writing on the issue. Keane's work is particularly relevant
> in his semiotics of materiality.
> Perhaps of interest?
> -greg
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 8:26 AM, James Ma <jamesma320@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Andy, apologies for my digression from your point. The sign resides both
> > within and outside the mind - this is my understanding from reading
> Peirce.
> > Somehow the effect of your article (I'm still reading it) on me is that
> it
> > makes me think more and more into Peirce...
> >
> > My understanding of "the material" is both interpretative and observable.
> >
> > Although I read Peirce and Vygotsky, the Saussurean/Hallidayan imagery is
> > always present in my mind (due to a linguistics background). Anyway, I
> feel
> > these thinkers sit together quite comfortably - all their ideas are
> > complementary - and can be distilled into one word: semiotics.
> >
> > James
> >
> > *_____________________________________*
> >
> > *James Ma*  *https://oxford.academia.edu/JamesMa
> > <https://oxford.academia.edu/JamesMa>*
> >
> >
> >
> > On 15 July 2017 at 13:28, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
> >
> > > James, I think you're using "material" in some specific sense which is
> > > unknown to me. It seems to me to be something to do with body language
> as
> > > opposed to speech, maybe practical consciousness rather than discursive
> > > consciousness. "Material" understood as meaning "made of matter" would
> > > simply be the opposite of "in my imagination". I find it difficult to
> get
> > > my head around the idea of a "sign in the mind" and if "mind" was some
> > > place other than the material world where a sign could be located. I'm
> > sure
> > > what you are talking about is perfectly good, but I can't relate it to
> > the
> > > absolutely basic ontological issue which you raised out of my paper
> about
> > > action.
> > >
> > > Andy
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Andy Blunden
> > > http://home.mira.net/~andy
> > > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making
> > > On 15/07/2017 8:15 PM, James Ma wrote:
> > >
> > >> Thanks for such helpful explanation, Andy.
> > >> Regarding my last question, I mean one's feeling or sense perception
> > >> involved in social practice in a social context possesses the material
> > >> quality of a psychic image (a sign in the mind). This material quality
> > can
> > >> be one's facial expression or bodily movement connected with a
> > particular
> > >> feeling.
> > >>
> > >> James
> > >>
> > >> /_____________________________________/
> > >>
> > >> */James Ma/*///https://oxford.academia.edu/JamesMa/
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 15 July 2017 at 09:42, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:
> > >> ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>     James, the meaning for words such as "material" and to
> > >>     a lesser extent the other words in your message have
> > >>     meanings which are extremely context (or discourse)
> > >>     dependent. The Stanford Encyclopaedia of Philosophy
> > >>     doesn't have a definition of Matter, considering it
> > >>     only in relation to Form, but their definition of
> > >>     Substance will do the trick. I follow Lenin and
> > >>     Vygotsky in my understanding of matter. (Hegel didn't
> > >>     like to use the word, because he took it as too linked
> > >>     to Atomism. Marx used "material" in a very specific
> > >>     way to do with reproduction of the means of life.)
> > >>
> > >>     As to the philosophical meaning of "matter" I think I
> > >>     said it in the paper as succinctly as possible. If
> > >>     it's in the mind then it is not material. I can't make
> > >>     sense of your last question.
> > >>
> > >>     Andy
> > >>
> > >>     ------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>     Andy Blunden
> > >>     http://home.mira.net/~andy <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
> > >>     http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-
> > decision-making
> > >>     <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-
> > >> decision-making>
> > >>
> > >>     On 15/07/2017 6:28 PM, James Ma wrote:
> > >>
> > >>         This is interesting to me, Andy. Do you rule out
> > >>         anything that has material quality but is actually
> > >>         associated with a mental sign (a sign in the mind,
> > >>         as Peirce would say)? Do you consider social
> > >>         practice (you mentioned earlier) to be tinted with
> > >>         the intrapsychological within oneself?
> > >>
> > >>         James
> > >>
> > >>         /_____________________________________/
> > >>
> > >>         */James
> > >>         Ma/*///https://oxford.academia.edu/JamesMa/
> > >>         <https://oxford.academia.edu/JamesMa/>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>         On 15 July 2017 at 07:11, Andy Blunden
> > >>         <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
> > >>         <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
> > >>         <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>             No, it would be spreading confusion, Greg.
> > >>
> > >>             "Matter" in this context is everything outside
> > >>         of my
> > >>             consciousness. "Activity" in this context is
> > >>         human,
> > >>             social practice. Moving attention to the
> > >>         sub-atomic
> > >>             level, a field where we have no common sense,
> > >>         sensuous
> > >>             knowledge, does not help.
> > >>
> > >>             Andy
> > >>
> > >>                    -----------------------------
> > >> -------------------------------
> > >>             Andy Blunden
> > >>         http://home.mira.net/~andy
> > >>         <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
> > >>         <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
> > >>         http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decisi
> > >> on-making
> > >>         <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-
> > >> decision-making>
> > >>                    <http://www.brill.com/product
> > >> s/book/origins-collective-decision-making
> > >>         <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-
> > >> decision-making>>
> > >>
> > >>             On 15/07/2017 2:31 PM, Greg Thompson wrote:
> > >>
> > >>                 Andy,
> > >>                 Just musing here but I'm wondering if
> > >>         "matter" is
> > >>                 anything more than activity, particularly when
> > >>                 considered at the sub-atomic level.
> > >>                 At that level, matter seems a lot more
> > >>         like the
> > >>                 holding of relations in some activity (not so
> > >>                 different from the Notion?).
> > >>                 Or would that be taking things too far?
> > >>                 -greg
> > >>
> > >>                 On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 10:12 PM, Andy Blunden
> > >>                 <ablunden@mira.net
> > >>         <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
> > >>         <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
> > >>                 <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
> > >>         <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
> > >>                 <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
> > >>         <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>>> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>                     Anyone who got interested in that
> > >>         material about
> > >>                     "Hegel on Action", here is my
> > >>         contribution.
> > >>
> > >>         https://www.academia.edu/33887830/Hegel_on_Action
> > >>         <https://www.academia.edu/33887830/Hegel_on_Action>
> > >>                        <https://www.academia.edu/
> > 33887830/Hegel_on_Action
> > >>         <https://www.academia.edu/33887830/Hegel_on_Action>>
> > >>                                   <https://www.academia.edu/3388
> > >> 7830/Hegel_on_Action
> > >>         <https://www.academia.edu/33887830/Hegel_on_Action>
> > >>                        <https://www.academia.edu/
> > 33887830/Hegel_on_Action
> > >>         <https://www.academia.edu/33887830/Hegel_on_Action>>>
> > >>
> > >>                     Andy
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>                     --
> > >>         ------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>                     Andy Blunden
> > >>         http://home.mira.net/~andy
> > >>         <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
> > >>                 <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
> > >>                 <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
> > >>         http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decisi
> > >> on-making
> > >>         <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-
> > >> decision-making>
> > >>                        <http://www.brill.com/product
> > >> s/book/origins-collective-decision-making
> > >>         <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-
> > >> decision-making>>
> > >>                                   <http://www.brill.com/products
> > >> /book/origins-collective-decision-making
> > >>         <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-
> > >> decision-making>
> > >>                        <http://www.brill.com/product
> > >> s/book/origins-collective-decision-making
> > >>         <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-
> > >> decision-making>>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>                 --         Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> > >>                 Assistant Professor
> > >>                 Department of Anthropology
> > >>                 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> > >>                 Brigham Young University
> > >>                 Provo, UT 84602
> > >>         http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
> > >>         <http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson>
> > >>                 <http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
> > >>         <http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> Assistant Professor
> Department of Anthropology
> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> Brigham Young University
> Provo, UT 84602
> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
>