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[Xmca-l] Re: Appeal for help



I'm just musing here. What you're saying resonates with some of my 
thinking around Britain's EU referendum and the subsequent national 
crisis that we are still going through. (Has ended one or two political 
careers, much to my delight, but has not ended some others, to my chagrin.)

The whole issue is complex, so I will probably do violence to it by 
describing it briefly. Those who voted to leave were, on the whole, 
taking aim at the wrong target. There appears to have been some 
difficulty distinguishing beween what people are angry about and what 
people are angry at. On the whole, they are angry about loss of 
security, loss of control, lack of steady jobs, the extraordinary price 
that needs to be paid for a house. There is also anger, as there away 
is, about immigration, which is even more complex. Leave voters thought 
that by voting to leave the EU they were taking back control. In a few 
years time they will realise that they have not, and then I think, by 
and large, there will be two camps. One camp will be those who realise 
that nothing in their lives has changed. The other will be those who, 
whatever the economic and social reality, will feel free, and will go to 
great lengths to say so. Some indeed are already saying an economic 
decline is a price worth paying for taking back control.

So that is the scene in which two contradictory projects have been 
taking place. Actually, more than two, but two key ones. The first is 
the project to take back control, channelled through the rise of UKIP 
and Nigel Farage's almost single handed ability to mobilise working 
class resentment into a political tool. In this project patriotism has 
become a very significant virtue. The demagogic right wing has shaped 
patriotism into a virtue which, in its thinking, its supporters have and 
nobody else does. (And it is expressed through native exceptionalism.) 
At the same time, anger - in their view "righteous" anger - has become a 
virtue which they share and promulgate. One of the nastier themes of 
their discourse is to shout "Traitor" at those campaigning on the other 
side. Manifestations of anger are now commonplace, from the murder of Jo 
Cox to the apparently 500% rise in hate incidents reported to the police 
since the result. So it seems the project has very definitely shaped the 
virtues its proponents hold.

On the other side, the position is more complex. For those who support 
staying in the EU, national identity is a complex issue which they have 
not succeeded in grappling with coherently. There is a muddy sense of 
European identity for some people, but not for others. Virtues of 
co-operation and internationalism are spoken about, but none with the 
conviction and passion of the nativists. So - still thinking aloud here 
- I think I'm illustrating the idea that projects form their own 
virtues, but also that some projects form virtues, and enable their 
expression, much more effectively than others.

Thank you for asking the question, Andy, because you have enabled me  to 
advance my thinking a bit. And if it provides fuel for you, that is a bonus.

Rob

On 05/07/2016 07:36, Andy Blunden wrote:
> Well, as is my nature, and given my situation, I am not going to do 
> any of that kind of *investigation*, Michael; I don't really want to 
> explain my larger project because that would lead to confusion of all 
> kinds at this stage. But ... I am just trying to show that the 
> understanding of virtues is enhanced by taking virtues to be 
> attributes of projects, with individuals perhaps acquiring and 
> developing such attributes in and through their participation in, 
> commitment to and place within the project. But it is not my intention 
> to look at participation in projects as a way of individuals acquiring 
> virtues. But simply that the virtuous nature of the project is what is 
> primary, not the prima facie character of the individual participants. 
> The problems I will face in substantiating this are very similar to 
> the issues you raised about cognitive development, but I am confident 
> I can overcome them.
>
> OK?
>
> Andy
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Andy Blunden
> http://home.mira.net/~andy
> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making
> On 5/07/2016 4:21 PM, Glassman, Michael wrote:
>> Andy,
>>
>> There are two issues here.  Are you exploring the way individual and 
>> group ethics change based on the current circumstances - separate 
>> from culturally developed "virtues" or are you exploring the way 
>> individual adapt to different sets of "virtues"  "morals" whatever 
>> when they change culture?
>>
>> Michael
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu 
>> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 2:15 AM
>> To: Nektarios Alexi <NEKTARIOS.ALEXI@cdu.edu.au>; eXtended Mind, 
>> Culture, Activity <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Appeal for help
>>
>> Perfect Alex! Thank you.
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> Andy Blunden
>> http://home.mira.net/~andy
>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making
>>
>> On 5/07/2016 4:00 PM, Nektarios Alexi wrote:
>>> For your request on similar information about changes in a person's
>>> character following their emigration to another country?  I have used
>>> his theory for my PhD thesis on acculturation effect for help seeking
>>> intentions for mental ilness.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1464-0597.1997.tb01087.x/
>>> abstract;jsessionid=3F23F698365AD798272D11D57C859C71.f04t02
>>>
>>> Immigration, Acculturation, and Adaptation - Berry - 2008 ...
>>> <http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1464-0597.1997.tb01087.x
>>> /abstract;jsessionid=3F23F698365AD798272D11D57C859C71.f04t02>
>>> onlinelibrary.wiley.com
>>> How to Cite. Berry, J. W. (1997), Immigration, Acculturation, and
>>> Adaptation. Applied Psychology:An International Review, 46: 5-34. doi:
>>> 10.1111/j.1464-0597.1997 ...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf of Andy Blunden
>>> <ablunden@mira.net>
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, 5 July 2016 3:08:22 PM
>>> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Appeal for help
>>> Comrade and friends, I need some help.
>>>
>>> I am setting about developing a new approach to virtue ethics. Virtues
>>> are everywhere taken to be deep-seated attributes of a person's
>>> character; my aim is to make the starting point instead from virtues
>>> defined as deep-seated attributes of a project, which you can take to
>>> mean "social context" or "system of activity" if you wish. I don't
>>> need advice about issues and problems of ethics, but it is in in the
>>> nature of virtue ethics that it always has strong implications for
>>> psychology as well as social theory, to the extent that I think I can
>>> make a great deal of progress by calling on psychological data.
>>>
>>> Can people point me to research(ers) about how a person's character
>>> changes with social context (e.g. home/work), any evidence of the
>>> well-known phenomenon in which a person promoted above the ability
>>> suffers a moral degeneration; any suitable and reliable data about the
>>> differing character (not just preferences or cognition, but virtues)
>>> of people from one culture or another? or similar information about
>>> changes in a person's character following their emigration to another
>>> country?
>>>
>>> URLs appreciated, or whole books, I don't have access to a university
>>> library or JSTOR.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Andy
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Andy Blunden
>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
>>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>