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[Xmca-l] Re: Two paths of mediation, or perhaps three



The word, pickle, never occurred to me, Tom. Kisli I immediately equated
with sour. It was the kraut part that I was opaque. That part of my example
had nothing to do with etymology, Huw. My wife reminded me of it when I
reported the first part.

So complicated to communicate about such experiences. And of course open to
multiple interpretations.  Still, I like mine...of course! :-)
Mike

On Tuesday, November 24, 2015, Tom Richardson <
tom.richardson3@googlemail.com> wrote:

> To butt in  again - surely 'sauer' also means 'acidic' - pickled cabbage?
> Tom
> Middlesbrough UK
>
> On 24 November 2015 at 16:31, Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>
> > I wouldn't have thought that a prior meaning blocks the path to the
> primary
> > meaning necessarily.  The norm, it seems, is that we are unaware of the
> > etymological roots of words.  And that unless one was practiced at
> > questioning the structure of the word forms then a discovery is not
> really
> > blocked as so much as never sought in the first place.  Personally, it
> > seems to me that when I enquire into an etymological meaning and find it
> > consonant with a a more pervasive (though little understood)
> understanding,
> > I take some temporary satisfaction in one more accounting in the
> reckoning
> > against our stupid society.
> >
> > As for (sauer)kraut, I think we could say the same for the more
> > contemporary neo-liberal.  Both terms point back to the speaker (and
> > artificer) of the word's confusions and sour-grapes which are projected
> > onto the protagonist  -- such is war and politics.
> >
> > Huw
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 24 November 2015 at 06:17, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >
> > > You've got a good head on your shoulders, Mike!
> > > andy
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > *Andy Blunden*
> > > http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
> > >
> > > On 24/11/2015 3:25 PM, mike cole wrote:
> > >
> > >> Oops, i should have proof read before rushing off. here is a slightly
> > >> cleaner text. Same ideas. :-)
> > >> mike
> > >> -------------
> > >>
> > >> Two paths of mediated thought through three languages.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> The topic arose because we were eating an almost great chiappino. I
> > said,
> > >> "Lets make that a part of the repertoire and my mind drifted to a
> search
> > >> for other soups I love, but have not experienced in a long time.
> "Shi,"
> > I
> > >> suggested. Shi is a soup made from saurkraut. "I don't like shi"
> Sheila
> > >> replied. "I was think we should find a Russian restaurant that has
> good
> > >> shi," I responded. That way, you could have something you do like."
> > Then I
> > >> thought about the properties of good shi and I code switched into
> > Russian.
> > >> "Kisli kapusta, I said, with a heavy emphasis on the word, kisli, to
> > >> emphasize that is *sour * kapusta in contrast with the usual cabbage
> > soup,
> > >> or the kind of cabbage you have in borscht. Then I thought to myself,
> > >> kisli-sour ..... oh, the *kraut *part of shi means cabbage!
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I remarked to Sheila that it was remarkable that I had somehow never
> > >> connected the word kraut, as in sour kraut, with the word cabbage,
> even
> > >> though it you asked me what sour kraut was made of, I would of course
> > say
> > >> cabbage. Why did I have to discover that kraut means cabbage from
> > >> remembering the delicious smell of schi?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> My strong hunch is that the answer lies with the fact that I
> experienced
> > >> WWII as a preschooler who became obsessed with the war. All during my
> > >> boyood I read countless fictional and historical accounts of the war.
> > The,
> > >> and in later years that war was depicted over and over again in films
> > from
> > >> the Guns of Navaronne to Private Ryan's war in a manner that fit with
> my
> > >> childhood image of WW II German soldiers, the SS, the Wermacht --
> > >> "krauts."
> > >> To me, the image of the word kraut, seems to have retained this
> > primitive,
> > >> early, persistent, organizing image.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Because the word, kraut, was already occupied, when I thought of shi,
> I
> > >> was, it seems, thinking kisli/sour kapusta, without incorporating the
> > >> knowledge that
> > >>
> > >> kapusta =kraut--> kraut=cabbage.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Odd how mediation works.
> > >>
> > >> And odd too, that my name is Cole.  If you look in the dictionary for
> > the
> > >> definition of the word, cole, you will find something like this:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> "any plant belonging to the genus Brassica, of the mustard
> > >> family,including many
> > >> economically important vegetables, such as *cabbage.*.......
> > >>
> > >> On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 8:16 PM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> the following observations might be of interest. I wonder if others
> have
> > >>> had similar experiences. The dynamics of language and the paths of
> > >>> mediation seem to be clear to me, but maybe that is just an illusory
> > >>> artifact of reporting on introspective reports.
> > >>>
> > >>> what, as Dr. Matusov is fond of asking, do you think?
> > >>> mike
> > >>> --------------------------------------------
> > >>>   Two paths of mediated thought through three languages.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> The topic arose because we were eating an almost great chiappino. I
> > said,
> > >>> "Lets make that a part of the repetoir and my mind drifted to a
> search
> > >>> for
> > >>> other soups I love, but have not experienced in a long time. "Shi," I
> > >>> suggested. Shi is a soup made from saurkraut. "I don't like shi"
> Sheila
> > >>> replied. "I was think we should find a Russian restaurant that has
> good
> > >>> shi," I responded. That way, you could have something you do like."
> > Then
> > >>> I
> > >>> thought about the properties of good shi and I code switched into
> > >>> Russian.
> > >>> "Kisli kapusta, I said, with a heavy emphasis on the word, kisli, to
> > >>> emphasize that is *sour * kapusta in contrast with the usual cabbage
> > >>> soup, or the kind of cabbage you have in borscht. Then I thought to
> > >>> myself,
> > >>> kisli-sour ..... oh, the *kraut *part of shi means cabbage!
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> I remarked to Sheila that it was remarkable that I had somehow never
> > >>> connected the word kraut, as in sour kraut, with the word cabbage,
> even
> > >>> though it you asked me what sour kraut was made of, I would of course
> > say
> > >>> cabbage. Why did I have to discover that kraut means cabbage from
> > >>> remembering the delicious smell of schi?
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> My strong hunch is that, because I experienced WWII as a preschooler
> > who
> > >>> became obsessed with the war. All during my boyood I read fictional
> and
> > >>> historical accounts of the war. In later years that war was depicted
> > over
> > >>> and over again in films from the Guns of Navarone to Private Ryan's
> war
> > >>> in
> > >>> a manner that fit with my childhood image of WW II German soldiers,
> the
> > >>> SS,
> > >>> the Wermacht -- "krauts." To me, the image of the word kraut, seems
> to
> > >>> have
> > >>> retained this primitive, early, persistent, organizing image.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Because the word, kraut, was already occupied, when I thought of
> shi, I
> > >>> was, it seems, thinking kisli/sour kapusta, without incorporating the
> > >>> knowledge that
> > >>>
> > >>> kapusta =kraut--> kraut=cabbabe.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Odd how mediation works.
> > >>>
> > >>> And odd too, that my name is Cole.  If you look in the dictionary for
> > the
> > >>> definition of the word, cole, you will find something like this:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> "any plant belonging to the genus Brassica, of the mustard
> > >>> family,including many
> > >>>
> > >>> economically important vegetables, such as *cabbage.*.......
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ​darn!​
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>>
> > >>> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an
> > >>> object that creates history. Ernst Boesch
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >
> >
>


-- 

It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an
object that creates history. Ernst Boesch