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[Xmca-l] Re: CoExperiencing as a Philosophy of Practice.



Larry, I strongly believe that there is a convergence of humanities and
social/behavioral sciences going on as one thread of academic discourse
congenial to CHAT. A real good location for pursuing it is. The Comm dept
at UCSD, if we add the arts as part off the mix.
That's my story at least. :-)

Mike

On Friday, November 6, 2015, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:

> I thought I would add the last paragraph of Alex Kozulin's review of
> Vasiliyuk's book.
>
> By choosing the literary model of human experiencing, Vasilyuk affirms his
> adherence to the humanistic, rather than scientific approach to human
> psychology. His work can also be seen as a blueprint for the future
> convergence of humanistic psychology with Vygotsky’s cultural-historical
> theory of human development .
>
> This premonition that some  new convergence is on the horizon. The coming
> intersection forming a hybrid character.
> Do others agree that we may be moving in the direction of a *literary
> model*?
> The discussion of White's narrative approach [using Bruner's notion of
> scaffolding] may be an example.
>
>  Vasilyuk's key understanding as expressed in his concept of consciousness
> that has two essential aspects [and their relations]
> *stratigraphy* as layered registers of depth or height. Each *layer* is a
> life-world.
> *structure* of the smallest molecule as unit of consciousness IS a *mental
> image*  A mental image having the structure of the two magnetic poles and
> the dynamic of consciousness moving within this dynamic *image*  like the
> flow of plasma.  Depth of layers AND mental images interact generating
> consciousness.
>
> Vasilyuk's philosophy of practice as 1st order word that is originating
> within the liminal spaces on the boundaries OF humanistic THEORY and
> cultural historical THEORY of human development.
>
> Consciousness as the originating site of meaning-GENERATION forming within
> co-experiencing *situations*.  In other words situated consciousness as
> working experience.
>
> This is a fragment but does express a *tone*
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 7:58 PM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>
> > Mike, the declaration that cultural mediation [in particular the symbolic
> > level] is a key element can put aside psychoanalysis and psychotherapy
> > and turn to Vygotsky's own way of including this symbolic level of
> > coexperiencing. Listen for the implicit movement marking the felt sense
> of
> > having *fallen away* from a *source* and then finding one's way back to
> the
> > *source* [and in this return entering *deeper* levels.  I am referring to
> > page 62 of Vasiliyuk's article "Prayer Silence, Psychotherapy".
> >
> > Vygotsky is exploring  a *deeper* layer for experiencing suffering. Not a
> > hedonistic flight from suffering, not masochistic consolation, not
> routine
> > platitudes [always a silver lining] but a spiritual sublimation of
> sorrow.
> > Elevating and deepening into the layer of experiencing the *source* by
> > transforming this suffering by return to the eternal.
> > Vygotsky images his life as *my star* in the heavens *marked* by sorrow.
> > His personal life and his Jewish life *marked* by sorrow. BUT this star
> is
> > IN THE HEAVENS.  So the meaning of suffering [the falling away from the
> > source] is not in fleeing from the suffering but in returning to the
> > *source* [the eternal, the deepest layer of consciousness] . The meaning
> is
> > *found* in the ELEVATION of suffering, elevtion on the wing OF A PRAYER
> TO
> > GOD. The transformation of suffering IN GOD.
> >
> > Vygotsky's metaphor is a personal particular  *image* expressing a deeply
> > felt layer of experience. But within the particular unique felt image
> there
> > is a general [not universal] plot [mytheme] that is historically
> > traceable developing  symbolic cultural imaginary.
> >
> > The plot can shift what is *source* [God, sublime, the *self*] and this
> > can be historically traced[including the work of experiencing the
> authentic
> > true *self* in psychology].
> >
> >  Suzanne Kirschner has traced these transformations in this myth from
> > religious origins, transformed within the Romantic movement, and shifting
> > into psychological theories today.
> >
> > The point I am offering is that Vygotsky as Vasilyuk his project was
> > touched by this mytheme. Peirce in his speculative musings, also was
> pulled
> > into this mytheme.
> >
> > I am not suggesting this plot is fundamental or foundational but the
> > yearning for this plot to be universal envelops and embodies us into this
> > particular myth and is experienced as a deeply felt *truth*. It is only
> one
> > of the *key elements* but it is a significant one of the keys to the
> > philosophy of practice.
> > The shift to secular themes [such as naturalism] does not change the
> > underlying plot structure but does change the images that *have us*.
> > Vygotsky saw his *star* ELEVATED to the heavens that transforms suffering
> > which is the experience existing within a symbolic truth,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 5:00 PM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu <javascript:;>>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Larry--
> >>
> >> Thanks for your continuing explication of your reading of Vasiliuk.
> >> Putting
> >> aside psychoanalysis and psychotherapy for a moment, I am totally behind
> >> the delaration
> >> that  *cultural mediation OF experience* which is a KEY ELEMENT", plus
> >> co-experiencing as the necessary condition for that cultural mediation.
> >>
> >> mike
> >>
> >> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 4:17 PM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Vasilyuk is developing the *philosophy of Practice* as a
> psychotechnical
> >> > *system*.
> >> > He says in his historical outline of the different *basic foundations*
> >> on
> >> > which psychology has relied [from suggestibility to *becoming aware*
> to
> >> > *emancipation* to reliance on learning  to reliance on experiencing to
> >> the
> >> > current reliance on experiencing [as existential/humanistic] which is
> >> > intersecting with todays reliance on productively producing internal
> >> > psychological transformations oriented to enriching the meaning of
> >> being.
> >> >
> >> > Vasilyuk says the task exploring the changing reliances of psychology
> >> as a
> >> > practice is not to describe the *factual* history of psychology and
> the
> >> > reliances of psychotherapy but to elicit the logic of history. In
> other
> >> > words to *listen* to the evolving IMPLICIT plot that gives meaning and
> >> > direction to the subsequent acts of the development of psychology.
> (page
> >> > 11)
> >> >
> >> > One of the key elements Vasilyuk identifies is the concept of
> *cultural
> >> > mediation of experiences*. He says:
> >> > Historically cumulative experiencings with standard situations
> >> crystallize
> >> > in various SYMBOLIC FORMS; when a person experiences crises, his
> >> > consciousness might get connected to these symbolic forms, an so the
> >> > process of experiencing, without losing its personality-oriented
> >> > uniqueness, gains ADDITIONAL DEPTH AND PRODUCTIVITY. (page 18).
> >> >
> >> > It is this additional depth and productivity as symbolic that Vasilyuk
> >> is
> >> > generating within his evolving implicit *plot* oriented to
> transforming
> >> > psychology in order to enrich the meaning of being.  This is also the
> >> theme
> >> > Vasilyuk is relying on in his other article *Prayer, Silence, and
> >> > Psychotherapy*. This is the living symbol of prayer on the boundary of
> >> > experiencing and silence/stillness.
> >> >
> >> > Here is Vygotsky exploring the *depth* of symbolism in his own words:
> >> >
> >> > Ophelia's tragedy [a personification] is exactly LIKE a lyrical
> >> > accompaniment, that towers over the entire play, which is full of the
> >> > dreadful torment of INEXPRESSIBILITY, of the most profound dark,
> >> > mysterious, and SACRED melodies that in some incomprehensible and
> >> > miraculous way REVEAL AND EMBODY what is most exciting, most allusive,
> >> and
> >> > touchingly important, what is DEEPEST AND DARKEST, but what is most
> >> tragic
> >> > that is OVERCOME and enlightened, and what IS MOST MYSTICAL in the
> >> entire
> >> > play. Thus tragedy turns into PRAYER .... as though with an oblational
> >> and
> >> > expiatory and PRAYERFUL light, it gives religious illumination to the
> >> > tragedy." (page 61 of Vasilyuk's article.)
> >> >
> >> > Vasiliuk then comments: "No matter how much the devotees of Marxist
> >> > materialism try to conceal Vygotsky's religiosity from themselves and
> >> us,
> >> > it is perfectly obvious that THESE words [LP -1st order words]  could
> >> only
> >> > have been written by a person with deep personal EXPERIENCE with
> >> prayer."
> >> > (page 61).
> >> >
> >> > To sum up, I am MARKING [for orientation purposes]  the concept of
> >> > *cultural mediation OF experience* which is a KEY ELEMENT of
> >> coexperiencing
> >> > psychotherapy AS philosophy of practice. I believe that the same
> >> *symbolic
> >> > gravity* can be expressed through changing images. The plot of
> "falling
> >> > away from* and *returning to* can be expressed in multiple symbols
> such
> >> > as turning away from God, turning away from the natural sublime,
> turning
> >> > away from one's true authentic self, These images are expressing
> >> different
> >> > *reliances* but are sharing the same symbolic plot as the cultural
> >> > mediation of experiencing. The IMPLICIT deepening of coexperience that
> >> is
> >> > now emerging in Russia since the 1980's that Vasilyuk is plotting may
> be
> >> > implicitly enveloped in this same mytheme of falling away from *the
> >> source*
> >> > and then the return to this *source.
> >> >
> >> > The book *The Religious and Romantic Roots of Psychoanalysis* by
> Suzanne
> >> > Kirschner has plotted this particular myth flowing through Western
> ways
> >> of
> >> > experiencing the meaning of being. She is tracing the roots of the
> >> > emergence of Freudian psychoanalysis but it is the more general
> >> philosophy
> >> > of practice as including this KEY ELEMENT of cultural mediation as
> >> > deepening coexperiences that I am highlighting.
> >> > As Vasilyuk says: the task is to LISTEN FOR *the evolving IMPLICIT
> >> > plot that gives meaning and direction to the subsequent acts of the
> >> > *development* of psychology [including the KEY symbolic element that
> >> > *deepens* experience beyond the personal existential.
> >> >
> >> > Larry
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an
> >> object that creates history. Ernst Boesch
> >>
> >
> >
>


-- 

It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an
object that creates history. Ernst Boesch