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[Xmca-l] Re: 4 experiencing fans

I have just finished reading the article of Vasilyuk  "An Historical-Methodological Analysis
of Psychotherapeutic Reliances"

This article is clearly an apologetical article of a deep Christian orthodox believer and practitioner and I think it can only make sense to readers that have some background in the readings of the  Fathers of the Church and more specifically the collection of texts of Philokallia which is the summit of the experience of the Christian hermits and ascets of Eastern christianity. 

>From the notes at the end of the article:

10. “‘The doctrine of theosis is the central topic of Byzantine theology
and the entire experience of Eastern Christianity’ (Archbishop Vasil). . . .
The doctrine of Theosis is the most maximalist and audacious ‘religious
ideal’ that can be imagined” (Khoruzhii, 1995, pp. 123–24).

Otherwise the main point of this article it might make absolutely no sense.

From: xmca-l-bounces+nektarios.alexi=cdu.edu.au@mailman.ucsd.edu [xmca-l-bounces+nektarios.alexi=cdu.edu.au@mailman.ucsd.edu] on behalf of Andy Blunden [ablunden@mira.net]
Sent: Tuesday, 3 November 2015 10:29 AM
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 4 experiencing fans

So we have seen how the work of "Chinese whispers" can
substitute for interpretation, Alex.
I doubt if any English speaker, who cannot read Russian,
could possibly gain an idea of what Vygotsky meant by
"perezhivanie" on the basis of English translations of
Vygotsky's writings.
The make-do translation of "lived experience" only serves to
convince people that they need enquire no further.
Perezhivanie is a word in the Russian language however, so
however Vygotsky integrated the concept into his theory, the
concept does exist in Russian culture, and is available for
Vasilyuk and others to use.

*Andy Blunden*
On 3/11/2015 10:18 AM, Nektarios Alexi wrote:
> Hi Andy,
> It might be that only now after trying to read and
> understand Vygotsky's work for the last 4 years I might
> started having a sense what perezhivanie really is (so it
> might be that firstly I am shocked by realizing the depth
> and breath of this russian word) by reading Vasilyuk
> commentaries. Also I am talking from the perspective of
> many Australians, so call postmodern psychotherapists or
> otherwise call narrative psychotherapists, that their main
> teacher was Michael White, who claims in his books that he
> uses Vygotsky's idea of scaffolding to help people to
> restructure their narratives and as a consequence of that
> to overcome their mental health issues. I do not think
> that the way Vasilyuk understands Vygotsky has any
> simillarity with the way that many narrative
> psychotherapists might have understood Vygotsky, so I
> think for any postmodern thinker who claims to be a
> follower of  Vygotsky it might be a bit shocking to read
> how Vasilyuk interprets many of the basic concepts of
> Vygotsky's work.
> Best Wishes,
> Nektarios
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Andy Blunden [ablunden@mira.net]
> *Sent:* Monday, 2 November 2015 9:44 PM
> *To:* Nektarios Alexi; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity;
> Annalisa Aguilar
> *Subject:* Re: [Xmca-l] Re: 4 experiencing fans
> The long trail of spaces at the end of the URL may cause
> people to get a bad link, Alex.
> Try http://summit.sfu.ca/item/9176
> Why do you say Vasilyuk gives such a *shocking*
> perspective on perezhivanie, Alex?
> Andy
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
> On 2/11/2015 10:20 PM, Nektarios Alexi wrote:
>> Attach is the article  that is locked. I have only read the first article from the list and hoping to read the other two by tomorrow sometime. I have a sense that Vasilyuk work is a good answer against the postmodern attitude of many psychotherapists and counsellors today and especially in Australia. Is funny though that narrative therapists in Australia and especially Michael White was thinking that is  applying Vygotsky's ideas in his work (i don't think he ever read his work properly). Vasilyuk I think is shocking by giving such an unexpected perspective to the word *perezhivanie*. Another shocking perspective of Vygotsky and against the postmodern attitudes of many psychotherapists today comes from the Thesis of    Levykh Michael where he gives an amazing description of the word (leachnost) which the english translation is personality.
>> Find his thesis in the following linkhttp://summit.sfu.ca/item/9176________________________________________
>> Best Wishes,
>> Nektarios
>> From:xmca-l-bounces+nektarios.alexi=cdu.edu.au@mailman.ucsd.edu  [xmca-l-bounces+nektarios.alexi=cdu.edu.au@mailman.ucsd.edu] on behalf of Andy Blunden [ablunden@mira.net]
>> Sent: Monday, 2 November 2015 7:49 PM
>> To: Annalisa Aguilar; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: 4 experiencing fans
>> The article I am referring to is at
>> http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/10610405.2015.1064721
>> People might be interested in the concept of
>> "psychotherapeutic reliance" for example.
>> The reliance is the process within the patient which the
>> therapist relies upon to resolve the problem, thus
>> separating the technique used by the therapist from the
>> process within the subject which is being relied upon in
>> designing the technique.
>> In pre-Freudian days when the method was hypnosis, the
>> reliance is *suggestibility*.
>> FOr Freudian psychotherapy, the reliance is *awareness*.
>> For Psychodrama, the reliance is *spontaneity*.
>> For Behavioural Therapy, the reliance is *learning*.
>> For Vasilyuk's "Co-experiencing" therapy the reliance is
>> *perezhivanie*, and he goes on to describe the main
>> characteristics of perezhivanie.
>> Andy
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> *Andy Blunden*
>> http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
>> On 2/11/2015 6:50 PM, Annalisa Aguilar wrote:
>>> Unfortunately, Andy, that 2nd article is locked down.
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Annalisa