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[Xmca-l] Re: Perezhivanie, again



I can see that the "working over" of what one has done, the catharsis part of perezhivanie, is intuitively very much like "being in the flow of" something you're doing right now, a kind of out-of-body experience, I think. This looks interesting,
Andy
------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
On 23/08/2015 11:12 AM, Susan Davis wrote:
Final post for now… Csikszentmihalyi’s work with adolescents is also very
interesting in terms of thinking about ‘flow’ experiences and relationship
to motivation, life trajectories and so on.

http://eric.ed.gov/?id=ED395261
https://books.google.com.au/books/about/Being_Adolescent.html?id=8SKKPXimP0
AC&redir_esc=y
https://books.google.com.au/books?id=UKcKqT4rgRUC&source=gbs_similarbooks

On 23/08/2015 11:04 am, "HENRY SHONERD" <hshonerd@gmail.com> wrote:

Sue and Larry,
Nice! “Life trajectory”, as Sue puts it, so much better than “stage of
development”. I wonder how Dewey would have found the talk of “resilence”
in teaching and learning. That would form a cluster with bending,
undergoing. Martial arts such as Tai Chi, rather than mixed martial arts.
It’s a rough world out there, especially for some of us. This month’s
Atlantic magazine has a wonderful essay by African-American Ta-Nahisi
Coats, which is a letter to his teen-age son on how to navigate the
streets of a nation state based so firmly on the subjugation of the Black
body. The fear, even terror, that Ta-Nahisi feels for his
light-of-his-life son is palpable. No anesthetic there. Ta-Nahis, despite
the fear, counsels open-eyed struggle. Much resonance with Dewey and
Vygotsky.
Henry

On Aug 22, 2015, at 6:38 PM, Lplarry <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:

Sue,
To stay with the "character" of fulfillment and integration.
I was struck by Dewey's characterization that " no experience of
whatever sort is a UNITY unless it has aesthetic quality".

Dewey also introduces the characteristics of non-aesthetic experiences
which he names ANESTHETIC experiences. The qualities of anesthetic
experiences are:
*Not concerned with the connection of one incident with what went
before and what comes after.
*No interest that controls attentive rejection or selection OF what
shall be organized into the "developing experience"
* we drift
*we yield, evade, compromise
*there are beginnings and cessations but no genuine initiations and
concludings
*one thing replaces another but does not absorb it and carry it on
* there is experience but so slack and discursive that it is not "an"
experience.
* the anesthetic lies between two poles - at one pole the loose
succession that does not begin at any particular place and ceases at no
particular place. - at the other pole is arrest, constriction,
proceeding from parts having only a MECHANICAL connection with one
another
*there is so much of these anesthetic experiences that they come to be
taken as norms of ALL experience.
 From this "norm" aesthetic experience is seen as so special in its
qualities it is placed OUTSIDE the place and status of normal
anesthetic experience. These anesthetic experiences are DEVIATIONS in
opposite directions FROM the UNITY of "an" experience.
Sue, Dewey then links VIRTUE to the aesthetic by invoking Aristotle's
concept of the "mean proportional" as what is distinctive of both virtue
and the aesthetic. The "mean proportion" has the characteristics
belonging to "an" experience that has a DEVELOPING MOVEMENT towards its
OWN CONSUMMATION.

I would add that this consummation occurs within a particular "subject
matter" that is undergone.

Every aesthetic integral experience is NOT "provisional" and this leads
to the question if our lives are becoming more provisional?
I think our growing inability to make a "wager" and invest our lives in
a particular direction may be a symptom of living lives that have an
anesthetic character.
This may also be why we are drawn to characters and contexts where our
lives are wagered and therefore have the character of having an"
experience. There narratives remind us of the distinctive quality of
lives of virtue.
Larry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Susan Davis" <s.davis@cqu.edu.au>
Sent: ‎2015-‎08-‎22 4:36 PM
To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Perezhivanie, again

Both creativity and struggle were certainly part of Dewey’s concept of
‘art as experience’- but this type of experience is also characterised
by
fulfilment and integration…  although that may not be the same as
perezhivanie… see the second sentence of the quote below which suggests
elements of opit (work/life experience) as well…

Is it also about those experiences that stand out from the everyday and
then may impact upon and gain significance in a person’s developmental
trajectory? In that Neiddu article on Mead that Larry Purss posted, she
talked about a ‘stream of experiences’. I think Beth F has previously
talked of a ‘chain of experiences’.


"Experience occurs continuously,because the interaction of live creature
and environing conditions is involved
in the very process of living. Under conditions of resistance and
conflict,
aspects and elements of the self and the world that are implicated in
this
interaction qualify experience with emotions and ideas so that conscious
intent
emerges. Oftentimes, however, the experience had is inchoate. Things are
experienced but not in such a way that they are composed into ‘an'
experience.
…. In contrast with such experience,we have ‘an' experience when the
material experienced runs its course to fulfilment. Then, and then only
is
it
integrated within and demarcated in the general stream of experience
from
other
experiences…Such an experience is a whole and carries with it is own
individualizing quality and self-sufficiency."
(Dewey 1934, p. 36-37)


Cheers
Sue

On 23/08/2015 9:09 am, "HENRY SHONERD" <hshonerd@gmail.com> wrote:

Would it be fair to say that perezhvanie refers to something that is
both
difficult and creative? A crisis, perhaps, but not one that crushes,
obliterates. I don’t mean triumphalism here. And the resolution can be
a
long time coming. Even constant food for thought and feeling at
different
“stages” of development.
Henry

On Aug 22, 2015, at 1:30 PM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:

Yes, indeed, Larry. For anyone who finds this line of discussion
interesting, I recommend *The metaphysical club* by Louis Menand. All
the
main characters are there.

pere words are fascinating. Perhaps this issue has been taken up by
Anna
Wierzbicka?
mike

On Sat, Aug 22, 2015 at 11:51 AM, Lplarry <lpscholar2@gmail.com>
wrote:

Lubomir,
This explanation is very clear and I appreciate your returning
"again"
to
perezhivanie.
With each "again" we further differentiate (and therefore relate) the
"character" of experience.
Mike, the pro/ject of clarifying pere type notions (which is also
therefore a relating) seems to be circling around what is be/coming a
KEY
concern that is being being lifted out of the stream of
communication/consciousness.
It seems Mead and Dewey and James and Peirce were also circling
around
pere phenomena as can be "seen" in their essays.

-----Original Message-----
From: "Lubomir Savov Popov" <lspopov@bgsu.edu>
Sent: ‎2015-‎08-‎22 10:51 AM
To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
Subject: [Xmca-l]  Perezhivanie, again

Hi Larry,

Essay is a very situational translation of perezhivanie or opit. It
is
too
much of a stretch.

By the way, the root of perezhivanie is zhiv which is also the root
for
life, live, and anything that is derived from them. In this line of
thought, "lived experience" might be the closest English translation,
although I am not sure how close it is.

Pereshivanie presupposes life experience, but not every life
experience.
It refers only to experience that involves a lot of feelings and
emotions,
as well as some kind of rethinking of that situation (I would not say
reflection because it is a much stronger category). The study of
katarzis
can shed light here, although katarzis is an extreme case and should
not be
a required condition for perezhivanie.

Pere- is a prefix that modifies a verb or another part of speech to
emphasize a process, action, transforming something, overcoming
something,
passing through something in space, indicating an extra level of
something,
and so on. It means too many different things in different situations
and
words. Maybe someone else will help here. Right now I am not in my
best
shape about that.

Google translate is helpless in translating perezhivanie, although it
is
very good for ordinal numbers and some the names of animals. Besides,
the
translation of perezhivanie should start with the clarification of
the
Russian concept (which is a hell of a time) and then searching for
English
word that is very close to it. If there are no English words, than we
can
just use it as it is. There are many such examples in English. I
remember
that the mas media do not translate the word for the Afgan national
assembly and use the local word Ghirga or something like that.

Opit is easy to translate in English. It is work experience, life
experience, . More or less, and some people might even say, almost
exactly.

Lubomir

-----Original Message-----
From: xmca-l-bounces+lspopov=bgsu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:
xmca-l-bounces+lspopov=bgsu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of
Lplarry
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2015 1:18 PM
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Kozol's writing place

Another "link" back to "opyt" as "experience".
One trans/lation I found of "opyt" is "essay" which  opens a door
into
the
"creative" Process of art forms .


-----Original Message-----
From: "Robert Lake" <boblake@georgiasouthern.edu>
Sent: ‎2015-‎08-‎22 10:10 AM
To: "eXtended Mind, Culture Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Kozol's writing place

Thanks  Henry. I kept thinking of Vera's book as well I was watching
it.
RL
On Aug 22, 2015 1:04 PM, "HENRY SHONERD" <hshonerd@gmail.com> wrote:

Robert,
The whole half hour interview is worth a whole lot! Thank you!
Things
I especially liked: His sharing of the artifacts, his messy method,
and , of course,  the place where he writes.( Larry Purss just
shared
an article on Meade that cites the trascendetalists of 19th Century
America, who I associate with the very kind of New England house
where
Kozol writes.) All of the interview reminded me of Vera John
Steiner’s
Notebooks of the Mind on the creative process. And the importance of
lived experience Who couldn’t love the guy? And they fired him!
Henry

On Aug 21, 2015, at 2:19 PM, Robert Lake
<boblake@georgiasouthern.edu>
wrote:
Hi Everyone,
The first 12 minutes of th
​e program linked below​
are worth watching
​ because shed light on Kozol's creative process of writing and
reveal
some
of the sources of his inspiration to write.
Langston Hughes sent Kozol an
autographed
photo
​ of himself​

​after​

​Kozol​
was fired
​ from his first teaching job​
for reading one of
​Hughes'​
poems in a high school English class.
​
​Kozol​
says reading Rilke, Yeats and Auden are his soul foo ​d​ and ​ he
was also a personal friend of Mister Rogers.* Who knew?​*
http://www.c-span.org/video/?288596-2/jonathan-kozol-writing-books.

Robert Lake  Ed.D.
Associate Professor
Social Foundations of Education
Dept. of Curriculum, Foundations, and Reading Georgia Southern
University
Secretary/Treasurer-AERA- Paulo Freire Special Interest Group P. O.
Box 8144
Phone: (912) 478-0355
Fax: (912) 478-5382
Statesboro, GA  30460
*He not busy being born is busy dying.* Bob Dylan (1964).




--

It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an
object that creates history. Ernst Boesch