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[Xmca-l] Re: Perezhivanie, again

There would also appear to be some similar features to be found in
discussion around perezhivanie and Csikszentmihalyi’s description of
‘flow’ experiences.  These are the experiences he identified as being
common to the activity of creative people when they experience a form of
intense engagement or ‘flow’.  He has elsewhere discussed how this not a
state confined for arts/creative activity:
"… it often involved painful, risky, difficult activities that stretched
the person’s
capacity and involved an element of novelty and discovery.  This optimal
experience is what I have called
flow, because many of the respondents described the feeling when things
were going well as an almost automatic,
effortless, yet highly focused state of consciousness. (Csikszentmihalyi,

Csikszentmihalyi, M. (1996). Creativity: Flow and the Psychology of
Discovery and Invention. New York: HarperPerennial

Other thoughts on this one?


On 23/08/2015 9:35 am, "Susan Davis" <s.davis@cqu.edu.au> wrote:

>Both creativity and struggle were certainly part of Dewey’s concept of
>‘art as experience’- but this type of experience is also characterised by
>fulfilment and integration…  although that may not be the same as
>perezhivanie… see the second sentence of the quote below which suggests
>elements of opit (work/life experience) as well…
>Is it also about those experiences that stand out from the everyday and
>then may impact upon and gain significance in a person’s developmental
>trajectory? In that Neiddu article on Mead that Larry Purss posted, she
>talked about a ‘stream of experiences’. I think Beth F has previously
>talked of a ‘chain of experiences’.
>"Experience occurs continuously,because the interaction of live creature
>and environing conditions is involved
>in the very process of living. Under conditions of resistance and
>aspects and elements of the self and the world that are implicated in this
>interaction qualify experience with emotions and ideas so that conscious
>emerges. Oftentimes, however, the experience had is inchoate. Things are
>experienced but not in such a way that they are composed into ‘an'
>…. In contrast with such experience,we have ‘an' experience when the
>material experienced runs its course to fulfilment. Then, and then only is
>integrated within and demarcated in the general stream of experience from
>experiences…Such an experience is a whole and carries with it is own
>individualizing quality and self-sufficiency."
>(Dewey 1934, p. 36-37)
>On 23/08/2015 9:09 am, "HENRY SHONERD" <hshonerd@gmail.com> wrote:
>>Would it be fair to say that perezhvanie refers to something that is both
>>difficult and creative? A crisis, perhaps, but not one that crushes,
>>obliterates. I don’t mean triumphalism here. And the resolution can be a
>>long time coming. Even constant food for thought and feeling at different
>>“stages” of development.
>>> On Aug 22, 2015, at 1:30 PM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
>>> Yes, indeed, Larry. For anyone who finds this line of discussion
>>> interesting, I recommend *The metaphysical club* by Louis Menand. All
>>> main characters are there.
>>> pere words are fascinating. Perhaps this issue has been taken up by
>>> Wierzbicka?
>>> mike
>>> On Sat, Aug 22, 2015 at 11:51 AM, Lplarry <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Lubomir,
>>>> This explanation is very clear and I appreciate your returning "again"
>>>> perezhivanie.
>>>> With each "again" we further differentiate (and therefore relate) the
>>>> "character" of experience.
>>>> Mike, the pro/ject of clarifying pere type notions (which is also
>>>> therefore a relating) seems to be circling around what is be/coming a
>>>> concern that is being being lifted out of the stream of
>>>> communication/consciousness.
>>>> It seems Mead and Dewey and James and Peirce were also circling around
>>>> pere phenomena as can be "seen" in their essays.
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: "Lubomir Savov Popov" <lspopov@bgsu.edu>
>>>> Sent: ‎2015-‎08-‎22 10:51 AM
>>>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l]  Perezhivanie, again
>>>> Hi Larry,
>>>> Essay is a very situational translation of perezhivanie or opit. It is
>>>> much of a stretch.
>>>> By the way, the root of perezhivanie is zhiv which is also the root
>>>> life, live, and anything that is derived from them. In this line of
>>>> thought, "lived experience" might be the closest English translation,
>>>> although I am not sure how close it is.
>>>> Pereshivanie presupposes life experience, but not every life
>>>> It refers only to experience that involves a lot of feelings and
>>>> as well as some kind of rethinking of that situation (I would not say
>>>> reflection because it is a much stronger category). The study of
>>>> can shed light here, although katarzis is an extreme case and should
>>>>not be
>>>> a required condition for perezhivanie.
>>>> Pere- is a prefix that modifies a verb or another part of speech to
>>>> emphasize a process, action, transforming something, overcoming
>>>> passing through something in space, indicating an extra level of
>>>> and so on. It means too many different things in different situations
>>>> words. Maybe someone else will help here. Right now I am not in my
>>>> shape about that.
>>>> Google translate is helpless in translating perezhivanie, although it
>>>> very good for ordinal numbers and some the names of animals. Besides,
>>>> translation of perezhivanie should start with the clarification of the
>>>> Russian concept (which is a hell of a time) and then searching for
>>>> word that is very close to it. If there are no English words, than we
>>>> just use it as it is. There are many such examples in English. I
>>>> that the mas media do not translate the word for the Afgan national
>>>> assembly and use the local word Ghirga or something like that.
>>>> Opit is easy to translate in English. It is work experience, life
>>>> experience, . More or less, and some people might even say, almost
>>>> Lubomir
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces+lspopov=bgsu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:
>>>> xmca-l-bounces+lspopov=bgsu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Lplarry
>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2015 1:18 PM
>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Kozol's writing place
>>>> Another "link" back to "opyt" as "experience".
>>>> One trans/lation I found of "opyt" is "essay" which  opens a door into
>>>> "creative" Process of art forms .
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: "Robert Lake" <boblake@georgiasouthern.edu>
>>>> Sent: ‎2015-‎08-‎22 10:10 AM
>>>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Kozol's writing place
>>>> Thanks  Henry. I kept thinking of Vera's book as well I was watching
>>>> RL
>>>> On Aug 22, 2015 1:04 PM, "HENRY SHONERD" <hshonerd@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Robert,
>>>>> The whole half hour interview is worth a whole lot! Thank you! Things
>>>>> I especially liked: His sharing of the artifacts, his messy method,
>>>>> and , of course,  the place where he writes.( Larry Purss just shared
>>>>> an article on Meade that cites the trascendetalists of 19th Century
>>>>> America, who I associate with the very kind of New England house
>>>>> Kozol writes.) All of the interview reminded me of Vera John
>>>>> Notebooks of the Mind on the creative process. And the importance of
>>>>> lived experience Who couldn’t love the guy? And they fired him!
>>>>> Henry
>>>>>> On Aug 21, 2015, at 2:19 PM, Robert Lake
>>>>>> <boblake@georgiasouthern.edu>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>>>> The first 12 minutes of th
>>>>>> ​e program linked below​
>>>>>> are worth watching
>>>>>> ​ because shed light on Kozol's creative process of writing and
>>>>>> reveal
>>>>> some
>>>>>> of the sources of his inspiration to write.
>>>>>> Langston Hughes sent Kozol an
>>>>>> autographed
>>>>>> photo
>>>>>> ​ of himself​
>>>>>> ​after​
>>>>>> ​Kozol​
>>>>>> was fired
>>>>>> ​ from his first teaching job​
>>>>>> for reading one of
>>>>>> ​Hughes'​
>>>>>> poems in a high school English class.
>>>>>> ​
>>>>>> ​Kozol​
>>>>>> says reading Rilke, Yeats and Auden are his soul foo ​d​ and ​ he
>>>>>> was also a personal friend of Mister Rogers.* Who knew?​*
>>>>>> http://www.c-span.org/video/?288596-2/jonathan-kozol-writing-books.
>>>>>> Robert Lake  Ed.D.
>>>>>> Associate Professor
>>>>>> Social Foundations of Education
>>>>>> Dept. of Curriculum, Foundations, and Reading Georgia Southern
>>>>>> University
>>>>>> Secretary/Treasurer-AERA- Paulo Freire Special Interest Group P. O.
>>>>>> Box 8144
>>>>>> Phone: (912) 478-0355
>>>>>> Fax: (912) 478-5382
>>>>>> Statesboro, GA  30460
>>>>>> *He not busy being born is busy dying.* Bob Dylan (1964).
>>> -- 
>>> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an
>>> object that creates history. Ernst Boesch

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