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[Xmca-l] Re: The Emergence of Boundary Objects



Andy,
Speaking of typos, I am assuming you meant DSM - The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders), not DVM - which is the Dept of Motor Vehicles, here in New Mexico. Not that there hasn’t been a lot of traffic on this thread lately. Your substantive point about what is considered mental illness, and how the DSM defines it, seems super relevant to this thread, where subject/object issues touch on individual and collective sanity and insanity, however sanity and insanity are construed.
Henry

> On Jul 22, 2015, at 9:17 AM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
> 
> You are right, Larry, that everything that's going on in these situation arises from the *relation between a subject and the Arbeitsgegenstand*, not the Arbeitsgegenstand alone.
> For example, there are hundreds of "syndromes" listed in DMV which in past times or other countries are not considered illnesses at all.
> And apologies for all the silly typos in that message.
> Andy
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
> On 23/07/2015 1:11 AM, Larry Purss wrote:
>> Andy, you have helped clarify why I have been [and remain] confused on the notion of "object"
>> 
>> I will try to focus on one particular relation you have highlighted.
>> If I am clear on your distinctions then:
>> 
>> It is not the Arbeitsgegenstand ALONE [the object OF labour or the object upon which labour works]  where the problem resides. The problem is NOT carried WITHIN the Arbeitsgegenstand as an abstraction.  The OBJECT [purposes and motives]  includes also the "concept" that the subject-person  makes OF the arbeitsgegenstand [object OF labour].
>> 
>> So it is the concept's relation WITH the arbeitsgegenstand [object OF labour] that generates  "subject's socially shared OBJECTs [purposes and motives].
>> 
>> Andy, I may have garbled your construal of the relations involved in these two meanings of "object", my question is  why not just say "object of labour" [when we mean arbeitsgegenstand] AND say "purposes and motives" when we mean OBJECT.
>> 
>> In the same way that Dewey wishes he had used a different term for "experience"  it seems we need alternative terms for "object".
>> 
>> I am also struggling to understand the historical movement implied in the alternative changing OBJECTs [purposes and motives]  expressed in how a term is situated.
>> 
>> The notion of "polyphonic" languages with  shifting meanings and OBJECTS seems very complex and seems to require expansive understandings of  multiple different "language-games" [as Wittgenstein uses that concept.
>> 
>> The labour process AND the conceptual process and multiple modern / postmodern understandings of "their"  [using personal pronoun] relations. Very complex process.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 11:31 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
>> 
>>    If I could try to do my thing and draw attention to
>>    some distinctions in this field ... we have at least
>>    three different versions of Activity Theory involved
>>    here plus Leigh Star's theory and in addition the
>>    theories that have spun off from Leigh Star's initial
>>    idea. Each is using the word "object" in a different
>>    way, all of them legitimate uses of the English word,
>>    but all indexing different concepts. So for the sake
>>    of this discussion I will invent some different terms.
>> 
>>    The German word Arbeitsgegenstand means the object of
>>    labour, the material which is to be worked upon, the
>>    blacksmith's iron. It is objective, in that if may be
>>    a nail to a man with a hammer and waste material for a
>>    man with a broom, but it is all the same
>>    Arbeitsgegenstand. Engestrom use the word "Object" in
>>    the middle of the left side of the triangle to mean
>>    Arbeitsgegenstand, and when it has been worked upon it
>>    becomes "Outcome." The hammer that the blacksmith uses
>>    is called "Instruments" or now "instrumentality," and
>>    the Rules, whether implicit or explicit, these are
>>    respectively the base and apex of the triangle.
>> 
>>    Engestrom says " The object carries in itself the
>>    purpose and motive of the activity." So this "purpose
>>    or motive" is not shown on the triangle, but I will
>>    call it the OBJECT. This is what Leontyev meant by
>>    "object" when he talks about "object-oriented
>>    activity." The OBJECT is a complex notion, because it
>>    is only *implicit* in the actions of the subject(s);
>>    it is not a material thing or process as such.
>>    Behaviourists would exclude it altogether. But this is
>>    what is motivating all the members of the design team
>>    when they sit down to collaborate with one another.
>>    Bone one of the team thinks the OBJECT is to drive the
>>    nail into the wood and another thinks the OBJECT is to
>>    sweep the Arbeitsgegenstand into the wastebin. These
>>    OBJECTs change in the course of collaboration and in
>>    the End an OBJECT Is *realised* which is the "truth"
>>    of the collaboration, to use Hegel's apt terminology here.
>> 
>>    Surely it is important to recognise that while
>>    everyone shares the same Arbeitsgegenstand, and ends
>>    up with Outcome as the same OBJECT, along the road
>>    they construe the object differently. This is what
>>    Vygotsky showed so clearly in Thinking and Speech. It
>>    is not the Arbeitsgegenstand or some problem carried
>>    within it alone which motivates action, but *the
>>    concept the subject makes of the Arbeitsgegenstand*!
>> 
>>    Then Leigh Star comes along and applies (as Lubomir
>>    astutely notices) postmodern ideology critique to the
>>    collaboration within an ostensibly neutral
>>    infrastructure - that is, in Engestrom's terms Rules
>>    and Instruments, which are naively supposed to be
>>    there just to aid collaboration. And Leigh Star shows
>>    that this is an illusion; the Rules and Instruments
>>    are in fact residues of past collaborations which
>>    carry within them the Outcomes, i.e., realised OBJECTs
>>    of past collaborations. It is these one-time OBJECTs,
>>    now-Instruments+Rules which are the Boundary Objects.
>> 
>>    But it seems that other have grasped the postmodern
>>    critique elements of this idea, that apparently
>>    ideologically neutral obJects (in the expanded sense
>>    of socially constructed entities, usually far more
>>    than OBJects - as things, or artefacts, including
>>    institutions - fossilised "systems of activity") and
>>    recognised the shared OBJECT as a Boundary Object,
>>    reflecting the fact not everyone has the same concept
>>    of the OBJECT, as Vygotsky proved.
>> 
>>    But what Engestrom has done, by placing the Boundary
>>    Object in the place of Object on his triangle, joining
>>    two "systems of activity," for the purpose of looking
>>    not at cooperation but rather the conflict within the
>>    broader collaboration. The reconstrual of the
>>    Arbeitsgegenstand is deliberate and aimed to change
>>    the relation between Subject and obJECT (here
>>    referring to the Hegelian "Object" usually rendered as
>>    "the Other.") thereby introducing yet a different
>>    strand of postmodern critique into the equation,
>>    namely Foucault's Poststructuralism, to mind mind,
>>    with great effect.
>> 
>>    OK, so we have Arbeitsgegenstand. OBJECT, Boundary
>>    Object, OBject, obJECT and obJect. And I might say,
>>    the situation is almost as bad in Russian and German,
>> 
>>    Andy
>> 
>>    ------------------------------------------------------------
>>    *Andy Blunden*
>>    http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
>>    <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
>>    On 22/07/2015 5:46 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote:
>> 
>>        Thanks a lot for your appreciation, Lubomir.
>> 
>>        To clarify my question in the previous e-mail, I
>>        wish to add that I am a bit familiar with the
>>        distinction between object and tool in activity
>>        theory, though not enough yet. I can see, and we
>>        were aware through the process, that what we
>>        describe in the paper has to do with how the
>>        object of design emerged and developed for the
>>        team in and as they were dealing with, developing,
>>        and resorting to particular means or tools. But I
>>        guess we could say that in our analyses there is a
>>        lack of a historical account of the object that
>>        goes over and above the particular instances
>>        analyzed. Although we provide with some
>>        ethnographic contextualization of the team's
>>        developmental trajectories, all of our discussion
>>        is grounded on concrete events and their
>>        transactional unfolding. We did not resort to the
>>        distinction between object and means because it
>>        seemed to be the same thing in the there and then
>>        of the episodes analyzed, at least in what
>>        participants' orientations concerned. If they ori
>>          ented towards anything beyond what was there in
>>        the meetings, it was in and through the meetings'
>>        means. How would then the distinction between
>>        means and object have added to our understanding
>>        of the events? (And this is not to doubt of the
>>        contribution from such a distinction, I really
>>        mean to ask this question for the purpose of
>>        growing and expanding; and as said before, part of
>>        the answer may be found in Engestrom et al.
>>        contribution).
>> 
>>        As to how we would position our contribution with
>>        regard to activity theory, I would reiterate what
>>        we said when introducing the paper for discussion:
>>        we begun with the purpose of working outside any
>>        particular framework and think, as we think Star
>>        did, broadly, drawing from several sources. These
>>        included cultural historical psychology,
>>        ethnomethodology, and discourse analysis. But also
>>        the ideas about Experience (in the
>>        Deweyan/Vygotskyan sense) that have been the topic
>>        in this discussion were in the background all the
>>        time, but we did not operationalize them in terms
>>        of any particular theory. This is not to say that
>>        we went for the "anything goes;" we tried our best
>>        to keep internal coherence between what we said
>>        about the data, and what the data was exhibiting
>>        for us. Perhaps Rolf would like to add to this.
>> 
>>        I think the questions you are rising about
>>        activity theory are very much in the spirit of
>>        what I am after, and I am not the best to answer
>>        them; but this xmca list may be one of the best
>>        places to be asking those questions.
>> 
>>        Alfredo
>>        ________________________________________
>>        From:
>>        xmca-l-bounces+a.g.jornet=iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>        <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>        <xmca-l-bounces+a.g.jornet=iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>        <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>> on behalf
>>        of Lubomir Savov Popov <lspopov@bgsu.edu
>>        <mailto:lspopov@bgsu.edu>>
>>        Sent: 21 July 2015 21:16
>>        To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>        Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Emergence of Boundary
>>        Objects
>> 
>>        Dear Alfredo and Rolf,
>> 
>>        There are also a few other things that I would
>>        like to bring to this discussion.
>> 
>>        First, you have a wonderful project and a great
>>        article. It is a great example of an
>>        interpretativist approach to everyday life
>>        phenomena. Really interesting and fascinating. It
>>        is all about our minds, culture, and activity.
>> 
>>        However, how is your approach related to classic
>>        Activity Theory? Some people might find that it is
>>        a Symbolic Interactionist approach; others might
>>        say it one of the Deconstructivist approaches that
>>        emerge right now or have emerged in the last
>>        decades; still other people might look for
>>        connections to ethnomethodology, discourse
>>        analysis, etc. I am not trying here to impose a
>>        template or categorize your methodology -- just
>>        raising a question about its connection to
>>        Activity Theory. And again, I am not saying that
>>        this is a shortcoming -- I would like to clarify
>>        certain things for myself.
>> 
>>        For example: What are the limits and boundaries of
>>        Activity Theory? How much we can fuse Activity
>>        Theory and Postmodernist approaches? What do we
>>        gain when we infuse new methodological,
>>        epistemological, and ontological realities into
>>        Activity Theory? What do we lose? What is the
>>        threshold when it is not Activity Theory anymore?
>>        (I mean here Activity Theory as research
>>        methodology.) Do we need to call something
>>        Activity Theory if it is not? If we create a new
>>        approach starting with Activity Theory, do we need
>>        to call it Activity Theory?
>> 
>>        Activity Theory is a product of Modern thinking,
>>        Late Modernism. The discourse you use in your
>>        paper borrows strongly from Postmodern discourses
>>        and approaches. I am not sure that Modernist and
>>        Postmodernist discourses can be fused. We can
>>        borrow ideas across the range of discourses, but
>>        after we assimilate them for use in our project,
>>        they will "change hands" and will change their
>>        particular discourse affiliation and will become
>>        completely different components of a completely
>>        different discourse. Mostly because the
>>        epistemologies and ontologies are different; and
>>        the concepts are very different despite of the
>>        similarities in ideas and words used to name these
>>        ideas.
>> 
>>        Just a few questions that I hope will help me
>>        understand better what is going on in the realm of
>>        CHAT.
>> 
>>        Thank you very much for this exciting discussion,
>> 
>>        Lubomir
>> 
>>        -----Original Message-----
>>        From:
>>        xmca-l-bounces+lspopov=bgsu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>        <mailto:bgsu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>        [mailto:xmca-l-bounces+lspopov
>>        <mailto:xmca-l-bounces%2Blspopov>=bgsu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>        <mailto:bgsu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>] On Behalf Of
>>        Alfredo Jornet Gil
>>        Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 11:36 AM
>>        To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity; Andy Blunden
>>        Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Emergence of Boundary
>>        Objects
>> 
>>        Andy, all,
>>          I just recently begun to read Engeström and
>>        cols. contribution to the special issue, which is
>>        very interesting. I have particular interest in
>>        the difference that they point out between
>>        boundary object on the one hand, and object and
>>        instrumentality as different aspects of activity
>>        theory on the other. Rolf and I came across this
>>        distinction while writing our own paper. We
>>        noticed that the museum space, through multiple
>>        forms of presentations (e.g., the room itself, a
>>        floor plan, performances of being in the room
>>        while not being there, etc), was a means, an
>>        instrument for achieving a final design product.
>> 
>>        At the same time, the museum space begun to become
>>        the object of the designers' activity. Since this
>>        were interdisciplinary designs, and the partners
>>        had multiple, sometimes opposite interests, what
>>        seemed to be a common object for all them was the
>>        museum as place. Thus, most representations of it
>>        begun to be made in terms of narratives about
>>        being there. That was the orientation that seemed
>>        to stick them together.
>> 
>>        Thus, the museum space was both object and
>>        instrument. We wondered whether we should do
>>        connections to notions of object of activity and
>>        tools, but we felt that that road would take us
>>        away from the focus on body and experience. We
>>        ended up drawing from Binder et al (2011), who
>>        differentiate between object of design, the design
>>        thing that work delivers, and the object's
>>        constituents (or means of presentation before the
>>        design thing is finished).
>> 
>>        When bringing the notion of boundary object into
>>        the picture, we could discuss the history of
>>        development of these relations between the
>>        different forms of presentations of the museum
>>        means towards the object without necessarily
>>        articulating the differences between the two. One
>>        advantage was that boundary objects focus on the
>>        materiality, which, as already mentioned, is not
>>        about materials in themselves, but about
>>        consequences in action. From the point of view of
>>        the persons implicated in the process, the museum
>>        space as object of design was an issue in and
>>        through the working with some material, some form
>>        of presenting it or changing it. Both object and
>>        instrument seemed to be moments of a same
>>        experience. But I still want to learn what we may
>>        get out of making the distinction between object
>>        and tool, as Engeström and colleagues do (so I
>>        should perhaps read more carefully their study
>>        rather than be here thinking aloud).
>>        Any thoughts?
>> 
>>        Alfredo
>> 
>> 
>>        ________________________________________
>>        From:
>>        xmca-l-bounces+a.g.jornet=iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>        <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>        <xmca-l-bounces+a.g.jornet=iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>        <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>> on behalf
>>        of Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net
>>        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
>>        Sent: 21 July 2015 14:38
>>        To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>        Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: The Emergence of Boundary
>>        Objects
>> 
>>        Henry, anything. But the point is objects which
>>        play some
>>        role in mediating the relation between subjects,
>>        probably a
>>        symbolic role, but possibly an instrumental role,
>>        too, and
>>        one subject challenges that role and turns the
>>        object into
>>        its opposite, and changes the terms of collaboration.
>>        A number of examples spring to mind.
>> 
>>           * Loaded, especially pejorative words, such as
>>        Queer, are
>>             embraced by a despised group who take control
>>        of the
>>             word and assertively embrace it;
>>           * The post-WW2 women's peace movement who
>>        deployed their
>>             stereotype as housewives and mothers to
>>        magnificant effect;
>>           * ISIS's hatred and fear of women turned into a
>>        weapon
>>             against them by Kurdish women fighters (ISIS
>>        flee before
>>             them rather than in shame);
>>           * The Chartists who turned the British govt's
>>        stamp which
>>             put newspapers out of reach of workers
>>        against them by
>>             printing the Northern Star as a stamped
>>        newspaper and
>>             obliging workers to club together in groups
>>        to buy and
>>             read it, thus making the paper into a glorious
>>             organising tool;
>>           * the naming of Palestine and the Occupied
>>        Territory /
>>             Israel is the struggle over the meaning of a
>>        shared
>>             object (the land);
>>           * Gandhi's use of the landloom as both a weapon
>>        and tool
>>             for Indian independence and self-sufficiency,
>>        raising it
>>             from the status of obsolete and inferior
>>        technology to a
>>             symbol of India.
>> 
>>        In think this is not what Susan Leigh Star had in
>>        mind when
>>        she introduced the term, but core point is that  the
>>        ideological construction placed upon an object is
>>        subject to
>>        contestation, and if successful, the re-marking of an
>>        artefact is a tremendously powerful spur to
>>        subjectivity.
>> 
>>        Yrjo raises the question: is the"boundary object" a
>>        mediating artefact or the object of work
>>        (/Arbeitsgegenstand/)? I think the answer is that
>>        in these
>>        cases it is a mediating artefact, tool or symbols
>>        according
>>        to context. In principle it is not the Object in the
>>        Engestromian sense, though it might happen to be.
>> 
>>        Andy
>> 
>>        ------------------------------------------------------------
>>        *Andy Blunden*
>>        http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
>>        <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
>>        On 21/07/2015 12:27 PM, HENRY SHONERD wrote:
>> 
>>            Rolf, Alfredo, Andy,
>>            I got to thinking about the photographs as
>>            boundary objects. What about video?
>>            Henry
>> 
>> 
>>                On Jul 20, 2015, at 6:07 PM, Andy Blunden
>>                <ablunden@mira.net
>>                <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
>> 
>>                Yes, thinking about this overnight, I came
>>                to see that it was the photographs that
>>                Thomas was endeavouring to turn to use to
>>                recover his humanity. This is consonant
>>                with how Yrjo was using the idea in
>>                relation to the subsistence farmers'
>>                movement in Mexico and their corn.
>>                Thanks Rolf!
>>                Andy
>>                ------------------------------------------------------------
>>                *Andy Blunden*
>>                http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
>>                <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
>>                On 21/07/2015 3:04 AM, Rolf Steier wrote:
>> 
>>                    This makes sense to me, Andy. I could
>>                    also interpret the photographs as
>>                    boundary objects as they support the
>>                    coordination of therapy activities
>>                    between Thomas and the nurse. I think
>>                    it depends on the aspect of activity
>>                    one is attempting to explore as
>>                    opposed to the definite identification
>>                    of what may or may not be a boundary
>>                    object. This is only my opinion though!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>                    On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 3:49 PM, Andy
>>                    Blunden <ablunden@mira.net
>>                    <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
>>                    <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
>>                    <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>> wrote:
>> 
>>                         Or alternatively, the boundary
>>                    object in question is
>>                         Thomas's aged body, which is
>>                    subject to an
>>                         interpretation which Thomas
>>                    contests by showing
>>                         photographs of far away places
>>                    and explaining how
>>                         well-travelled he is, seeking an
>>                    interpretation of
>>                         himself as a well-travelled and
>>                    experiences
>>                         man-of-the-world.
>>                         Does that make better sense?
>>                         Andy
>>                     ------------------------------------------------------------
>>                         *Andy Blunden*
>>                    http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
>>                    <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
>>                         <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
>>                         On 20/07/2015 11:27 PM, Andy
>>                    Blunden wrote:
>> 
>>                             Yes, I agree. My own interest
>>                    is in social theory
>>                             and I'd never heard of
>>                    "boundary objects." It
>>                             seems to me that what BOs do
>>                    is introduce some
>>                             social theory into domains of
>>                    activity (scientific
>>                             and work collaborations for
>>                    example) where the
>>                             participants naively think
>>                    they are collaborating
>>                             on neutral ground. So it is
>>                    not just granularity,
>>                             but also the ideological context.
>> 
>>                             In Yjro Engestrom's article,
>>                    the home care workers
>>                             collaborate with the old
>>                    couple according to rules
>>                             and regulations,
>>                    communications resources,
>>                             technology, finance and so
>>                    on, which in the
>>                             unnamed country, the old
>>                    couple are apparently
>>                             cast as "patients". Isn't it
>>                    the case that here it
>>                             is those rules and
>>                    regulations, etc., which are
>>                             the "boundary objects"?
>> 
>>                             Andy
>>                     ------------------------------------------------------------
>>                             *Andy Blunden*
>>                    http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
>>                    <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
>>                                                <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
>>                             On 20/07/2015 11:13 PM, Rolf
>>                    Steier wrote:
>> 
>>                                 I think that a particular
>>                    institution or
>>                                 government system could
>>                    potentially be a
>>                                 boundary object depending
>>                    on how the concept
>>                                 is applied. Star
>>                    describes three criteria: 1)
>>                                 interpretive flexibility
>>                    2) material/
>>                                 organizational structure
>>                    and 3) scale/
>>                                 granularity in which the
>>                    concept is useful.
>> 
>>                                 She argues that boundary
>>                    objects are typically
>>                                 most useful at the
>>                    organizational level - so I
>>                                 would say that one would
>>                    have to justify the
>>                                 utility of applying the
>>                    concept to a
>>                                 particular institution,
>>                    as opposed to, say, an
>>                                 object within an institution.
>> 
>>                                 On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at
>>                    2:46 PM, Andy Blunden
>>                                 <ablunden@mira.net
>>                    <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
>>                    <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
>>                    <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
>>                                 <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
>>                    <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
>>                                 <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
>>                    <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>>> wrote:
>> 
>>                                     Phew!
>>                                     So would it be
>>                    correct to describe the
>>                                 government
>>                                     institutions and
>>                    political system are
>>                                 "boundary objects"?
>>                                     Andy
>>                     ------------------------------------------------------------
>>                                     *Andy Blunden*
>>                    http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
>>                    <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
>>                                                    <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
>>                                                        <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
>>                                     On 20/07/2015 9:42
>>                    PM, Rolf Steier wrote:
>> 
>>                                         Hi Andy -
>>                                         Good catch! I
>>                    believe that is a typo
>>                                 and should
>>                                         read "despite a
>>                    LACK of consensus".
>>                                 Thank you for
>>                                         pointing that out.
>> 
>> 
>>                                         I also wanted to
>>                    follow up on a
>>                                 suggestion that
>>                                         Greg made in the
>>                    other thread
>>                                 suggesting we look
>>                                         at David
>>                    McNeill's work. I had only
>>                                 been familiar
>>                                         with his earlier
>>                    work on gesture, but
>>                                 after doing
>>                                         a bit of reading
>>                    over the weekend, I
>>                                 found his
>>                                         concept of                     'unexpected metaphors'
>>                                 potentially
>>                                         useful in dealing
>>                    with some of my
>>                                 questions.(
>>                    http://mcneilllab.uchicago.edu/pdfs/unexpected_metaphors.pdf
>>                                         )
>> 
>>                                         Here is a
>>                    relevant quote describing
>>                                 unexpected
>>                                         metaphors as a
>>                    form of gesture:
>> 
>>                                             /The logic is
>>                    that unexpected
>>                                 metaphors arise
>>                                         from the
>>                                             need to
>>                    create images when the
>>                                 culture does
>>                                         not have
>>                                             them readily
>>                    at hand. These images
>>                                 join linguistic
>>                                             content as
>>                    growth points and
>>                                 differentiate what
>>                                             Vygotsky
>>                    (1987) called psychological
>>                                         predicates, or
>>                                             points of
>>                    contrast in the
>>                                 immediate ongoing
>>                                         context of
>>                                             speaking.
>>                    Unexpected metaphors,
>>                                 precisely
>>                                         because they
>>                                             are outside
>>                    the conventions of
>>                                 language and
>>                                         culture,
>>                                             can capture
>>                    abstractions in novel
>>                                 ways and
>>                                         provide the
>>                                             fluidity of
>>                    thought and language
>>                                 that is the
>>                                         essence
>>                                             of ongoing
>>                    discourse./
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>                                         On Mon, Jul 20,
>>                    2015 at 1:00 PM, Andy
>>                                 Blunden
>>                                                            <ablunden@mira.net
>>                    <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
>>                                 <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
>>                    <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
>>                                 <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
>>                    <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
>>                                 <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
>>                    <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>>
>>                                                            <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
>>                    <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
>>                                 <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
>>                    <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
>>                                                            <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
>>                    <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
>>                                 <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
>>                    <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>>>> wrote:
>> 
>>                                             Rolf, what
>>                    did you mean by "the
>>                                 achievement of
>>                                             cooperation
>>                    despite consensus"?
>>                                             p. 131,
>> 
>>                                             Andy
>>                     ------------------------------------------------------------
>>                                             *Andy Blunden*
>>                    http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
>>                    <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
>>                                                    <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
>>                                                            <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
>>                                                                <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
>>                                             On 17/07/2015
>>                    8:45 AM, Rolf Steier
>>                                 wrote:
>> 
>>                                                 Are we
>>                    allowed to ask
>>                                 questions about our
>>                                         paper as
>>                                                 well? I
>>                    hope so!
>> 
>>                                                 For a
>>                    little context -in our
>>                                 paper, we
>>                                         identified
>>                                                                    particular kinds of
>>                                                 episodes
>>                    in which participants
>>                                 from different
>>                                                                    disciplines seek coherence
>>                                                 and
>>                    continuity of shared
>>                                 representations
>>                                         through
>>                                                 bodily
>>                    action. These
>>                                                 actions
>>                    include gesture,
>>                                 movement and physical
>>                                                                    performance linking the
>>                                                 present
>>                    material artifacts to
>>                                 objects of
>>                                         design.
>>                                                 Most of
>>                    these episodes
>>                                                 seem to
>>                    involve some form of
>>                                 improvisation,
>>                                                                    resourcefulness or creativity,
>>                                                 and I'm
>>                    not fully sure how to
>>                                 characterize
>>                                         these
>>                                                 aspects
>>                    of the
>>                                                                    interactions. In most cases, the
>>                                         participants seem
>>                                                 to be
>>                    searching for the
>>                                                 best
>>                    words or material
>>                                 representation to
>>                                         convey a
>>                                                                    particular intention -
>>                                                 when this
>>                    becomes problematic
>>                                 or limiting
>>                                         - they
>>                                                 almost
>>                    fall back on what
>>                                                 is
>>                    available - these
>>                                 improvised bodily
>>                                                                    performances - as a way of
>>                                                                    maintaining continuity, and of
>>                                 inviting
>>                                                                    co-participants into a shared and
>>                                                 imagined
>>                    space. These bodily
>>                                 actions don't
>>                                         seem to
>>                                                 begin the
>>                    proposals, but
>>                                                 are in a
>>                    sense *discovered* by the
>>                                         participants.
>> 
>> 
>>                                                 I think
>>                    there is something
>>                                 really fascinating
>>                                                 about
>>                    this kind of creativity
>>                                                 and
>>                    resourcefulness in
>>                                 interaction that
>>                                         could be
>>                                                 explored
>>                    more deeply - and
>>                                                 that I'm
>>                    having trouble
>>                                 articulating.
>>                                         Maybe some
>>                                                 of you
>>                    have some thoughts
>>                                                 on this?
>>                    Alfredo - I know
>>                                 we've talked
>>                                         about this
>>                                                 a bit
>>                    before so maybe you
>>                                                 can add a
>>                    little clarity to my
>>                                 question.
>> 
>>                                                 On Thu,
>>                    Jul 16, 2015 at 9:37
>>                                 PM, HENRY SHONERD
>>                                                                    <hshonerd@gmail.com
>>                    <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com>
>>                                                    <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com
>>                    <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com>>
>>                                                            <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com
>>                    <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com>
>>                                                    <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com
>>                    <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com>>>
>>                                                            <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com
>>                    <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com>
>>                                                    <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com
>>                    <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com>>
>>                                                            <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com
>>                    <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com>
>>                                                    <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com
>>                    <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com>>>>>
>>                                                 wrote:
>> 
>>                                                     Alfredo,
>>                                                     Thank
>>                    you very much for
>>                                 the sketch of your
>>                                                                        roots. I taught English in
>>                                                                        Puigcerda and Barcelona
>>                                 for 5 years
>>                                         back in
>>                                                     the
>>                    early 70s, just before
>>                                                                        Franco died. (He died the
>>                                 day I
>>                                         boarded the
>>                                                     plane
>>                    back to the U.S.) Place
>>                                                     and
>>                    language are interesting,
>>                                         especially where
>>                                                                        language varieties meet.
>>                                                                        Boundaries. I know mostly
>>                                 from my
>>                                         familiarity
>>                                                     with
>>                    the music of Catalunya
>>                                                     and
>>                    Mallorca that the speech
>>                                         communities in
>>                                                     each
>>                    of those places treasure
>>                                                     their
>>                    unique languages
>>                                 (Catalan and
>>                                                                        Mallorquin), yet see a
>>                                 commonality
>>                                                                        vis-a-vis their
>>                                 separateness from
>>                                         Castilian
>>                                                                        Spanish, the national language
>>                                                     of
>>                    Spain from 1492 on. I
>>                                 see a parallel
>>                                                                        between your work on boundary
>>                                                                        objects, where individual
>>                                 persons
>>                                         collaborate
>>                                                     to
>>                    create spaces, AND
>>                                                                        boundary objects
>>                                 "negotiated" by groups of
>>                                                                        people who live in real
>>                                 spaces.
>>                                                     I am
>>                    thinking, among other
>>                                 things, of
>>                                                                        indigeneity, a big topic
>>                                 here in New
>>                                                                        Mexico, with so many
>>                                 Native Americans.
>>                                                                        Assymetries of power.
>>                                 Bullying.
>>                                                                        Testing and curriculum become
>>                                         instruments of
>>                                                     war
>>                    by other means. I hope my
>>                                                     tone
>>                    does not distract
>>                                 from, nor
>>                                         diminish, the
>>                                                                        optimism created by this
>>                                                                        thread. Yet I think that
>>                                 optimism is so
>>                                                                        precious because of the
>>                                 ground (the
>>                                                                        world) of the dialog.
>>                                                     Henry
>> 
>> 
>>                                                                            On Jul 16, 2015, at
>>                                 12:13 PM, Alfredo
>>                                                                            Jornet Gil
>>                                 <a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
>>                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
>>                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
>>                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>>
>>                                                            <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
>>                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
>>                                                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
>>                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>>>
>>                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
>>                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
>>                                                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
>>                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>>
>>                                                            <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
>>                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
>>                                                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
>>                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>>>>>
>> 
>>                                                     wrote:
>> 
>>                                                                            Well, you could say
>>                                 that I am partly
>>                                                                            Catalan. I grew up in
>>                                 the province
>> 
>>                                                     of
>>                    Valencia, where Catalan
>>                                 language is
>>                                                                        official language together
>>                                 with
>>                                                                        Castilian Spanish.
>>                                 Although Valencia (the
>>                                                                        county) and Catalonia are
>>                                                                        different regional
>>                                 counties, Catalan
>>                                         is spoken
>>                                                     in
>>                    Catalonia, Valencia, and
>>                                                     the
>>                    Balear Islands. Some
>>                                 call the three
>>                                                                        together as the Catalan
>>                                 Countries.
>>                                                     I
>>                    don't like borders, but
>>                                 I respect
>>                                         and enjoy
>>                                                                        cultural diversity.
>> 
>>                                                                            Standardized testing,
>>                                 and the whole
>>                                                                            assumptions behind it,
>>                                 are an issue
>> 
>>                                                     also
>>                    in Spain and in
>>                                 Catalonia; but
>>                                         education
>>                                                     has
>>                    been so battered during
>>                                                     the
>>                    last years of right-wing
>>                                         government that I
>>                                                     the
>>                    debate have been more
>>                                                     about
>>                    means and access
>>                                 than about
>>                                         contents and
>>                                                     aims.
>>                    Which in some sense
>>                                                     may
>>                    be good because it
>>                                 moves the
>>                                         debates away
>>                                                     from
>>                    performance. But I have
>>                                                     been
>>                    living outside of
>>                                 Spain for eight
>>                                         years
>>                                                     now,
>>                    so I am not the best to
>>                                                                        update you on this either.
>> 
>>                                                                            Best wishes,
>>                                                                            Alfredo
>>                     ________________________________________
>>                                                         From:
>>                                                    xmca-l-bounces+a.g.jornet=iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>                                                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>>                                                            <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>                                                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>>>
>>                                                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>                                                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>>                                                            <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>                                                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>>>>
>> 
>>                                                    <xmca-l-bounces+a.g.jornet=iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>                                                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>>                                                            <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>                                                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>>>
>>                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>                                                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>>                                                            <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>                                                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>>>>>
>>                    on
>>                                                     behalf of
>>                                                     HENRY
>>                    SHONERD
>>                                 <hshonerd@gmail.com
>>                    <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com>
>>                    <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com
>>                    <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com>>
>>                                                            <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com
>>                    <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com>
>>                                                    <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com
>>                    <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com>>>
>>                                                                        <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com
>>                    <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com>
>>                                                    <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com
>>                    <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com>>
>>                                                            <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com
>>                    <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com>
>>                                                    <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com
>>                    <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com>>>>>
>> 
>>                                                                            Sent: 16 July 2015 19:54
>>                                                                            To: eXtended Mind,
>>                                 Culture, Activity
>>                                                                            Subject: [Xmca-l] Re:
>>                                 The Emergence of
>>                                                                            Boundary Objects
>> 
>>                                                                            Alfredo,
>>                                                                            Yes, you have answered
>>                                 my question
>>                                         very
>>                                                                            nicely! I especially
>>                                 appreciate
>> 
>>                                                     that
>>                    you were willing to
>>                                 wrestle with my
>>                                                                        question, despite your lack of
>>                                                                        familiarity with the
>>                                 issues here in
>>                                         the U.S.
>>                                                     Am I
>>                    wrong, or are you
>>                                                                        Catalan? In which case
>>                                 your experience in
>>                                                                        Catalunya would take you to a
>>                                                                        different place in critiquing
>>                                         schooling there,
>>                                                                        though not necessarily
>>                                                                        unconnected to yours and
>>                                 Rolf's work on
>>                                                                        boundary objects. I just
>>                                 met for
>>                                                     the
>>                    second day in a row
>>                                 with a friend
>>                                         who is
>>                                                     the
>>                    liaison between our public
>>                                                                        school district and a
>>                                 children's science
>>                                                                        museum called Explora. I
>>                                 feel like
>>                                                     I'm
>>                    swimming in this
>>                                 thread, talk about a
>>                                                     mixed
>>                    metaphor!
>> 
>>                                                         Henry
>> 
>> 
>>                                                                                On Jul 16, 2015,
>>                                 at 12:18 AM,
>>                                         Alfredo
>>                                                                                Jornet Gil
>>                                                            <a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
>>                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
>>                                                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
>>                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>>
>>                                                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
>>                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
>>                                                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
>>                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>>>
>>                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
>>                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
>>                                                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
>>                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>>
>>                                                            <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
>>                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
>>                                                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
>>                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>>>>>
>> 
>>                                                     wrote:
>> 
>>                                                                                I am sorry, Henry,
>>                                 but I am
>>                                         not very
>>                                                                                familiar with
>>                                 high-stakes
>> 
>>                                                                        standardized testing (as
>>                                 different to
>>                                                                        standardized testing in
>>                                 general) or
>>                                                     with
>>                    common core (which I
>>                                 quickly read
>>                                         is an
>>                                                     issue
>>                    in US). But I would say
>>                                                     that,
>>                    if (school)
>>                                 curricula were to be
>>                                                                        consistent with the view of
>>                                                                        education as the practice
>>                                 of creating
>>                                                                        conditions for certain
>>                                 attitudes and
>>                                                                        dispositions to
>>                                 emerge--which is what
>>                                         I was
>>                                                                        suggesting in the
>>                                 paragraph you
>>                                                                        copy--curricula would not
>>                                 be so much about
>>                                                                        standardized contents, but
>>                                 about
>>                                                     human
>>                    sensitivities and
>>                                 relations. So,
>>                                         I would
>>                                                     say,
>>                    no, standardized
>>                                                                        testing is not in
>>                                 principle in line
>>                                         with what
>>                                                     I was
>>                    trying to say.
>> 
>>                                                                                I was trying to
>>                                 make a distinction
>>                                                                                between trying to
>>                                 design someone's
>> 
>>                                                                        particular experience, and
>>                                 trying to
>>                                         design
>>                                                                        conditions for the development
>>                                                     of
>>                    attitudes and
>>                                 orientations. The
>>                                         first is
>>                                                                        likely impossible. The second
>>                                                     seems
>>                    to make more sense.
>> 
>>                                                                                One may of course
>>                                 wonder
>>                                         whether those
>>                                                                                attitudes and
>>                                 orientations can
>> 
>>                                                     be
>>                    considered general, and
>>                                 then form
>>                                         part of
>>                                                                        standardize measures instead
>>                                                     of
>>                    the traditional
>>                                 "contents and
>>                                         skills". But
>>                                                                        measuring assumes some
>>                                                                        quantitative increment in
>>                                 a particular
>>                                         aspect
>>                                                     as
>>                    the result of learning.
>>                                                                        Growth and development,
>>                                 however, are about
>>                                                                        qualitative change. So, as
>>                                 soon
>>                                                     as
>>                    you start measuring you
>>                                 would be
>>                                         missing
>>                                                                        growth and development. So,
>>                                                                        again, no. I would not say
>>                                 that
>>                                         high-stakes
>>                                                                        standardized testing is in
>>                                 line
>>                                                     with
>>                    what I was trying to say.
>> 
>>                                                                                I hope I have
>>                                 answered your
>>                                         question,
>>                                                                                Alfredo
>>                     ________________________________________
>>                                                                                From:
>>                                                    xmca-l-bounces+a.g.jornet=iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>                                                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>>                                                            <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>                                                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>>>
>>                                                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>                                                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>>                                                            <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>                                                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>>>>
>> 
>>                                                    <xmca-l-bounces+a.g.jornet=iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>                                                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>>                                                            <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>                                                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>>>
>>                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>                                                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>>                                                            <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>                                                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>>>>>
>>                    on
>>                                                     behalf of
>>                                                     HENRY
>>                    SHONERD
>>                                 <hshonerd@gmail.com
>>                    <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com>
>>                    <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com
>>                    <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com>>
>>                                                            <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com
>>                    <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com>
>>                                                    <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com
>>                    <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com>>>
>>                                                                        <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com
>>                    <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com>
>>                                                    <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com
>>                    <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com>>
>>                                                            <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com
>>                    <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com>
>>                                                    <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com
>>                    <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com>>>>>
>> 
>>                                                                                Sent: 16 July 2015
>>                                 07:48
>>                                                                                To: eXtended Mind,
>>                                 Culture,
>>                                         Activity
>>                                                                                Subject: [Xmca-l]
>>                                 Re: The
>>                                         Emergence of
>>                                                                                Boundary Objects
>> 
>>                                                                                Alfredo, you say:
>> 
>>                                                                                "However, we
>>                                 cannot aim at
>>                                         determining
>>                                                                                any particular
>> 
>>                     situation/experience. The
>>                                 same may be said
>>                                                     about
>>                    EDUCATION. We cannot
>>                                                                        intend to communicate the
>>                                 curriculum
>>                                         and make
>>                                                     it
>>                    the content of the
>>                                                                        students' experience in
>>                                 the way we
>>                                         intend. But
>>                                                     we
>>                    can try to create the
>>                                                                        conditions for certain
>>                                 attitudes and
>>                                                                        dispositions to emerge."
>> 
>>                                                                                Would you say that
>>                                 high-stakes
>>                     standardized
>>                                 testing is in
>>                                         line with
>> 
>>                                                     your
>>                    construal of
>>                                 curriculum design?
>>                                         How about
>>                                                                        common core?
>> 
>>                                                                                Henry
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>                                                                                    On Jul 15,
>>                                 2015, at 5:29 PM,
>>                                                                                    Alfredo Jornet Gil
>>                        <a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
>>                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
>>                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
>>                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>>
>>                                                            <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
>>                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
>>                                                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
>>                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>>>
>>                                                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
>>                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
>>                                                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
>>                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>>
>>                                                            <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
>>                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
>>                                                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
>>                    <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>>>>>
>> 
>>                                                     wrote:
>> 
>>                                                                                    Thanks a lot
>>                                 for the
>>                        clarifications. I see now
>>                                         why it
>>                                                                                    may be said that
>> 
>>                                                                        designers can aim at
>>                                 designing for
>>                                         constrains
>>                                                     but
>>                    not for affordances. I
>>                                                     see
>>                    that this way of
>>                                 talking is part of a
>>                                                                        designers' way to get things
>>                                                     done,
>>                    and that it may
>>                                 indeed be an
>>                                         effective
>>                                                     way
>>                    to design for
>>                                                                        place-making, as in the
>>                                 example that
>>                                         Michael
>>                                                     gives
>>                    of MOMA. Indeed, much of
>>                                                     what
>>                    we report in our
>>                                 study is about
>>                                         designers
>>                                                                        talking about how spatial
>>                                                                        features might afford some
>>                                 experiences
>>                                         in the
>>                                                                        museum while constraining
>>                                                     others.
>> 
>>                                                                                    I must admit,
>>                                 however, that I
>>                                                                                    still consider
>>                                 the distinction
>> 
>>                                                                        problematic from an
>>                                 analytical perspective
>>                                                                        whenever our object of
>>                                 study is
>>                                                                        experience, situated
>>                                 action, or design as
>>                                                                        situated practice. A more
>>                                 correct
>>                                                     way
>>                    to talk is that
>>                                 affordances and
>>                                         constrains
>>                                                     are
>>                    the positive and
>>                                                     negative
>>                                 sides/interpretations of
>>                    a single
>>                                                                        unitary category. As an actual
>>                                                     and
>>                    concrete phenomenon,
>>                                 walking into
>>                                         a musuem
>>                                                                        implies both affordances and
>>                                                                        constrains at the same
>>                                 time, whether
>>                                         intended
>>                                                     or
>>                    not. Which makes me wonder
>>                                                                        whether other terminology,
>>                                 such as
>>                                         Ingold's
>>                                                                        notion of "correspondence,"
>>                                                     might
>>                    be more appropriated
>>                                 when we
>>                                         talk about
>>                                                     how
>>                    materials and actions
>>                                                                        become entangled into
>>                                 particular
>>                                         trajectories.
>> 
>>                                                                                    In any case,
>>                                 and as Rolf
>>                     emphasizes,
>>                                 what the
>>                                         designers in
>>                                                                                    our study
>> 
>>                                                                        indeed do is to IMAGINE
>>                                 ways of being
>>                                         in the
>>                                                                        museum. Imagination versus
>>                                                                        prediction may be an
>>                                 interesting topic
>>                                                                        emerging here for further
>>                                 inquiry
>>                                                     into
>>                    design work.
>> 
>>                                                                                    Another
>>                                 important (and
>>                                         related)
>>                                                                                    issue that I
>>                                 think is
>>                                         emerging here
>> 
>>                                                     has
>>                    to do with the level
>>                                 of generality at
>>                                                     which
>>                    design intentions can be
>>                                                                        expected to work (just as
>>                                 Bateson
>>                                         argued with
>>                                                                        regard to prediction). At the
>>                                                     level
>>                    of generic social
>>                                 processes, and
>>                                         given a
>>                                                                        particular
>>                                                                        cultural-historical
>>                                 background, we as
>>                                                                        designers may try to make some
>>                                                                        generic situations more
>>                                 likely to
>>                                         occur than
>>                                                                        others (facilitating that more
>>                                                     or
>>                    less people end up
>>                                 together in a given
>>                                                                        place). However, we cannot
>>                                 aim at
>>                                                                        determining any particular
>>                     situation/experience. The
>>                                 same may be
>>                                         said about
>>                                                                        EDUCATION. We cannot intend to
>>                                         communicate the
>>                                                                        curriculum and make it the
>>                                                                        content of the students'
>>                                 experience in
>>                                         the way
>>                                                     we
>>                    intend. But we can try to
>>                                                                        create the conditions for
>>                                 certain
>>                                         attitudes
>>                                                     and
>>                    dispositions to emerge.
>> 
>>                                                                                    Alfredo
>>                     ________________________________________
>>                                                                                    From:
>>                                                    xmca-l-bounces+a.g.jornet=iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>                                                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>>                                                            <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>                    <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> 
>> 
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