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[Xmca-l] Re: Having an experience



That sounds right, Beth.
Andy
------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
On 18/07/2015 1:55 PM, Beth Ferholt wrote:
Yes, that is very helpful, thank you!
I do not think it is ever without another, and thought of this when I read your recent paper. You can always perezhivanie with the others in yourself, so long as you attach the other to something, even to a "past" or "future" self. Virginia Woolf is very good at showing this. Paley's children in her class appear to be like Buber, having life stand still here with a cat or even a tree.
Beth

On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 11:44 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:

    I couldn't tell you that, Beth.
    On Mike's suggestion, you will recall, the discussion
    of perezhivanie was progressed, avoiding
    cross-cultural difficulties, by a discussion of films!
    There is a movie called "An Education," and there is a
    passage in this movie where the young heroine has this
    experience, following the revelation of how she has
    been deceived and exploited. It is the moment of
    self-transformation, but that transformation is
    extended perhaps over a period of 24 hours, in
    silence, in that kind of state. The first movie that
    was discussed was "Brief Encounter" and here that
    moment of time standing still comes at the end of the
    movie when the heroine reflects on an exciting affair
    and her life with her nice boring husband and sees
    that her life is best just as it is and lets go of her
    romanticism. In my own life, I recall several such
    time-standing-still moments of transformation. But in
    none of these cases was there a therapist involved. It
    is an open question for me, if you want to give a
    different name ("meta-perezhivanie") to that
    perezhivanie where the person is able to reflect upon
    their own experience without the aid of another.

    Andy
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    *Andy Blunden*
    http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
    <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
    On 18/07/2015 1:25 PM, Beth Ferholt wrote:

        Which stage according to Vasilyuk's stages is the
        standing still?  Redemption or the smack middle of
        repentance, when you can see both directions at
        once? Beth

        On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 11:11 PM, Andy Blunden
        <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>> wrote:

            According to Mikhail Munipov (whom you have met on
            FaceBook, Beth) that process of "life standing
        still"
            is characteristic of the cathartic moment of a
            perezhivanie.
            And David, if I associate catharsis with
        perezhivanie
            I am more referring to its meaning in Greek
        drama, not
            19th century medicine or Freudian
        psychoanalysis, all
            of these being derivatives of the original
        Greek, I think,

            Andy
        ------------------------------------------------------------
            *Andy Blunden*
        http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
        <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
            <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
            On 18/07/2015 1:03 PM, Beth Ferholt wrote:

                Yes, this really makes sense!  So it is
        the doing
                that is the practical energy.  SO Marx was
        writing
                about a method of perezhivanie?

                I may be conflating things but I am trying to
                piece together several pieces (like how in
        a big
                city you know a whole neighborhood as a
        world unto
                itself, and then you find out it is in the
        same
                area as another neighborhood that you know
        well --
                but you did not know they were connected -- ).

                Actually that process of piecing together
        across
                the gaps is also related to what we are
        talking
                about.  Of course. When you age in a city
        you also
                have the depth of the memories in layers at a
                given place, and this stringing together
        across
                time and place is what Virginia Woolf
        calls life:
                moments in which "life stands still her"
        strung
                together like a strand of pearls = with gaps
                between them.

                Beth

                On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 10:42 PM, Andy Blunden
                <ablunden@mira.net
        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
                <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
                <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>>> wrote:

                    Like you, Beth, I have found this xmca
        thread
                    particularly exciting!
                    There is one thing I'd like to add,
        which is
                implicit
                    in Mike's quote from Marx:
        https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/manuscripts/comm.htm#art
                    which is that Dewey holds an
        experience to be both
                    suffering and *doing* [Tatigkeit in
        German].
                    The doing means that an experience (to
        be an
                    experience, and stand out from the
        background of
                    experience, have significance and form
        a whole)
                    entails wilfully changing the world,
        even if that
                    changing is trivial, such as changing
        other
                people's
                    attitudes to you or most trivially
        changing
                how you
                    henceforth interact with a certain kind of
                situation,
                    person or whatever. But doing is
        doing, it is
                not just
                    going through the motions or habit.
        And that
                is why
                    experiences in this sense are so
        important to the
                    development of the personality and the
        world,

                    Andy
        ------------------------------------------------------------
                    *Andy Blunden*
        http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
        <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
                <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
                    <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>

                    On 18/07/2015 4:40 AM, Beth Ferholt wrote:

                        This chain of ideas is the closest
        I have ever
                        felt to what interests me
                        most.  It covers all the interests
        that
                brought me
                        first to play and then
                        to the playworlds and then to
                perezhivanie.      Before I went to LCHC I
        was a
                        preschool teacher and this is a
        profession
                that I
                        think can be described as
                        being, in its first part,
        responsible for
                        reflecting upon the 'having an
                        experience' that is happening all
        around
                you every
                        day (time is so
                        condensed for young children so it is
                happening
                        all the time) so that you
                        can support the self-creation
        beings who
                are able
                        to "have an experience''?

                        Like with Greg's students, as a
        preschool
                teacher
                        you find that what is
                        most important is to describe what is
                happening in
                        a way that is true to
                        the children's experiences. Vivian
        Paley
                shows us
                        how to do this.  If you
                        don;t do this you find dealing
        with the
                Golem who
                        has had the words that
                        give it life removed from its
        mouth: you
                just have
                        dirt, nothing even
                        remotely related to the Golem, not
        even
                weight.

                        I think it is the teacher/artists
        who can
                find for
                        us those properties that
                        will characterize the experience as a
                whole. What
                        Monica named 'preschool
                        didactics from within' is a
        process of working
                        with these people in
                        research. This sounds like 5D.

                        Andy, Vygotsky is talking about
        the the two
                        purposes of art criticism.  One
                        is entirely in the domain of
        social life,
                he says,
                        guiding what art creates
                        in its audience in useful
        directions. The
                other
                        is to 'conserve the effect
                        of art as art'.  He says we know
        this is
                needed,
                        because art is a unity,
                        and without the whole criticism is not
                related to
                        art -- he calls what we
                        have left, without the unity, a
        wound.  But
                        criticism of art treats art as
                        a parliamentary speech -- often -- he
                says.      Vygtosky shows how to avoid
                        this in the chapter on Bunin's
        short story.

                        As a preschool teacher you know
        that art
                is life
                        because if you forget this
                        then you have unhappy children and
        your job is
                        impossible, or worse.  As an
                        researcher, every time you hit
        something
                hard you
                        can revert to the first
                        purpose of art/life criticism, or
        anyhow
                to the
                        part that does not conserve
                        the effect, without any
        consequences on your
                        livelihood.  If we could have
                        a system of science that makes it
                impossible to
                        leave the hardest questions
                        to the first purpose of criticism,
        then we
                could
                        have so many people
                        working on these hardest questions
        in a
                meaningful
                        way, but I do not know
                        how to do this even in my own work.

                        Except one way is to place the
        desires of the
                        teachers and children before
                        your own.  This is sort of a
        method of love or
                        empathy.  Kiyo suggested The
                        Method of Hope by Miyazaki (no
        relation I
                think)
                        and this is related, also
                        Edith Turner's work where she sees
        the reality
                        that the people she is
                        studying see.

                        Maybe it is a method of perezhivanie.

                        Beth


                        On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 1:58 PM,
        Alfredo
                Jornet
                        Gil <a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
        <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
                <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
        <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>>
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        <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
                <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
        <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>>>>
                        wrote:

                            Mike, could you elaborate on that?

                            Alfredo
        ________________________________________
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                <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>>>> on
                            behalf of
                            mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu
        <mailto:mcole@ucsd.edu>
                <mailto:mcole@ucsd.edu
        <mailto:mcole@ucsd.edu>> <mailto:mcole@ucsd.edu
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                            Sent: 17 July 2015 19:40
                            To: eXtended Mind, Culture,
        Activity
                            Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Having
        an experience

                            Alfredo--

                            a "method of organization"
        seems close
                to a
                            synonym for design.

                            mike

                            On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 9:42
        AM, Alfredo
                            Jornet Gil
        <a.j.gil@iped.uio.no <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
                <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
        <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>>
                            <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
        <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>

                <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
        <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>>>>

                            wrote:

                                I like very much how Greg
        brings in a
                                methodological issue here
        with his
                                mention about ethnography
        and his
                reading
                                of "fidelity"; that the latter

                            is

                                not about representing
        exactly,
                but about
                                describing events in terms of
                                consequences for the
        participants,
                which
                                they display for each other in
                                their actual practice.

                                This methodological aspect
        makes
                me think
                                that the the notion of
        ANALYSIS
                                BY UNITS, which has been
        discussed
                in xmca
                                before, is useful here. Unit
                                analysis reminds us that,
        as units,
                                experiences, as concrete
        and real
                                phenomena, have some form of
                organization
                                that extends in time. That is
                                why, if I understood the
                discussion below
                                correctly, Beth is warned not

                            to

                                think of the unit of
        experience as
                a unit
                                "in itself".

                                Dewey and Bentley 1949
        made the
                                differentiation between
                self-action and
                                transaction. In self action,
                things are
                                explained by their own powers.

                            This

                                is, I believe, what
        Vygotsky would
                have
                                referred to as analysis by
                                elements. In transaction,
        they say,
                                “deal[s] with aspects and
        phases of
                                action, without final
        attribution to
                                ‘elements’ or other
        presumptively
                                detachable ‘entities,’
        ‘essences,’ or
                                ‘realities,’ and without
        isolation

                            of

                                presumptively detachable
                ‘relations’ from
                                such detachable
        ‘elements’”. An
                                experience can be studied
        precisely
                                because it is not a thing
        in itself:

                            it

                                is always a moving, gesture, a
                "method of
                                organization" as Dewey &

                            Bentley

                                write.

                                I thought this my add
        something to
                your
                                fascinating discussion,
                                Alfredo


                ________________________________________
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        <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>>>> on
                                behalf of
                                mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu
        <mailto:mcole@ucsd.edu>
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                <mailto:mcole@ucsd.edu
        <mailto:mcole@ucsd.edu>>>>
                                Sent: 17 July 2015 18:23
                                To: Andy Blunden; eXtended
        Mind,
                Culture,
                                Activity
                                Subject: [Xmca-l] Re:
        Having an
                experience

                                Marx: It is only in a social
                context that
                                subjectivism and objectivism,
                                spiritualism and materialism,
                activity and
                                passivity, cease to be
                                antinomies and thus cease
        to exist
                as such
                                antinomies. The resolution of
                                the theoretical
        contradictions is
                possible
                                only through practical means,
                                only through the practical
        energy
                of man.
                                Their resolution is not by any
                                means, therefore, only a
        problem of
                                knowledge, but is a real
        problem of
                                life which philosophy was
        unable
                to solve
                                precisely because it saw there

                            a

                                purely theoretical problem."

                                On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at
        10:45 PM, Andy
                                Blunden <ablunden@mira.net
        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
                <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
                                <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
                <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>>>

                            wrote:

                                    No, no, Beth. As Dewey
        says:

                                        "This unity is neither
                emotional,
                                    practical, nor
                                        intellectual, for
        these
                terms name
                                    distinctions that
                                        reflection can
        make within
                it. In
                                    discourse//about//an
                                        experience, we
        must make
                use of
                                    these adjectives of
                                        interpretation. In
        going
                over an
                                    experience in
                                        mind//after/ /its
                occurrence, we
                                    may find that one
                                        property rather than
                another was
                                    sufficiently dominant
                                        so that it
        characterizes the
                                    experience as a whole."

                                    Isn't this beautiful
                scientific prose!
                                    We make these
        distinction when

                            we

                                    *reflect* on an
        experience. And
                                    perhaps we include the
                experience in

                            our

                                    autobiography, act it
        out on the
                                    stage, analyse it
                scientifically, all

                            of

                                    which presupposes
        analysis and
                                    synthesis. But it is
        important to

                                recognise

                                    that the unity is
        prior. It is not
                                    only a unity of
        emotion and

                            cognition

                                    (for example) but also of
                attention
                                    and will - and any other
                categories

                                you

                                    abstract from an
        experience.

                                    Andy
        ------------------------------------------------------------
                                    *Andy Blunden*
        http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
        <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
                <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
<http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>

                                    On 17/07/2015 3:00 PM,
        Beth
                Ferholt wrote:

                                        Or reproducing the
        part that
                                        represents the
        whole? Like a
                                        fractal? I
                                        think it is the
        similarity
                across
                                        scales that makes an
                experience
                                        proleptic, or
        gives that
                'bliss
                                        conferred at the
        beginning
                of the road

                                to

                                        redemption" that
        Vasilyuk
                refers
                                        to.  You have an
        experience on

                            several

                                        timescales and so
        a sense of
                                        deja-vu is central to
                having an

                            experience.

                                        This is what I am
        thinking
                about
                                        after reading both the
                paper of

                            Dewey's

                                        and your recent
        piece on
                                        perezhivanie, Andy,
                although I am
                                        picking up

                                on a

                                        small piece of the
        last
                email in
                                        this chain -- : If
                something is only
                                        itself in its
        whole then
                you can't
                                        study it, is what is
                bothering me.

                                Beth

                                        On Thu, Jul 16,
        2015 at
                11:22 PM,
                                        Andy Blunden
                <ablunden@mira.net
        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
<mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
                <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>>
<mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
                <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>

<mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
                <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>>>> wrote:

                                             Not "getting at
                something",
                                        Michael. Just pursuing
                                             this question
        you raised
                                        about Dewey's
        saying that the
                                             aesthetic
        quality of
                medieval
                                        buildings arises from
                                             their not
        being "planned"
                                        like buildings are
        nowadays.
                                             He goes on to say
                "Every work
                                        of art follows the
        plan
                                             of, and
        pattern of, a
                                        complete
        experience." The
                puzzle
                                             he is raising
        here is the
                                        completeness of an
                                             experience which
                gives it its
                                        aesthetic quality, and
                                             this cannot
        be created by
                                        assembling
        together parts in
                                             the way a modern
                building is
                                        planned. An
        experience -
                                             the kind of
        thing which
                                        sticks in your
        mind - is an
                                             original or prior
                unity, not
                                        a combination, and
        this
                                             is what gives
        a work
                of art
                                        that ineffable
        quality,
                                             something
        which can
                only be
                                        transmitted by
        reproducing
                                             that whole of an
                experience.

                                             Andy
         ------------------------------------------------------------
                                             *Andy Blunden*
        http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
        <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
                <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
<http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
                <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
                                             On 17/07/2015
        2:32 AM,
                                        Glassman, Michael
        wrote:

                                                 Andy,

                                                 I'm still not
                sure about
your question. Did I set
                                                 out to
        have that
                                        experience, that
                morning...no, I
                                                 don't
        think so
                (it was a
                                        long time ago, but I'm
                                                 pretty
        sure no).
                Could I
                                        have just treated
        it as
                                                 an
        indiscriminate
                                        activity,
        probably, I had done
                                                 so before.

                                                 But I am
        guessing
                you're
                                        getting a
        something here
                                                 Andy?

                                                 Michael

                                                 -----Original
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        <mailto:osu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>>>

                <mailto:osu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:osu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>
                <mailto:osu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:osu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>>

<mailto:osu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:osu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>
                <mailto:osu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:osu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>>>>] On
                                        Behalf Of
                                                 Andy Blunden
                                                 Sent:
        Thursday,
                July 16,
                                        2015 12:21 PM
                                                 To:
        eXtended Mind,
                                        Culture, Activity
                                                 Subject:
        [Xmca-l] Re:
                                        Having an experience

                                                 YOu said:
        "...
                But that
                                        time I had the
        experience
                                                 with the
                paintings..."

                                                 I mean
        that was an
                                        experience. Did
        you set out
                                                 that
        morning to
                have that
                                        experience?
                                                 RE, your
                question: "what
                                        does he mean when
        he says
                                                 you can't
        do things
                                        indiscriminately
        and have
                                                 vital
        experience,
                but you
                                        also can't plan
        things?"
                                                 Andy

         ------------------------------------------------------------
                                                 *Andy
        Blunden*
        http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
        <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
                <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
<http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
                  <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
                                                 On 17/07/2015
                2:09 AM,
                                        Glassman, Michael
        wrote:

                                                     Well
        I'm not
                sure I
                                        understand your
        question
                                                     Andy, but
                perhaps it has
something to
                do with
                                        my grandfather's
        favorite
                                                     saying
                (translated from
                                                     Yiddish),

                                                     Man
        plans,
                God laughs.

                                                     Michael

         -----Original
                                        Message-----
                                                     From:
                 xmca-l-bounces+mglassman=

        ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>
<mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu
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        <mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>
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        <mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>>>

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        <mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>>>>
                    [mailto:xmca-l-bounces+mglassman
        <mailto:xmca-l-bounces%2Bmglassman>
                <mailto:xmca-l-bounces%2Bmglassman
        <mailto:xmca-l-bounces%252Bmglassman>>
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                <mailto:xmca-l-bounces%25252Bmglassman
        <mailto:xmca-l-bounces%2525252Bmglassman>>>>=
        ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>
<mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu
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        <mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>>>
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        <mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>
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<mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>>>>]
                                                     On
        Behalf Of
                Andy Blunden
                                                     Sent:
                Thursday, July
                                        16, 2015 12:04 PM
                                                     To:
        xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
                <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
<mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
                <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>>
                  <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
                <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>

<mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
                <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>>>
                                                     Subject:
                [Xmca-l] Re:
                                        Having an experience

                                                     So
        Michael,
                there was
                                        just that one
        occasion,
                                                     in
        all your
                                        museum-going, when
        you had an
         experience.
                Was that
                                        planned?
                                                     (I
        don't mean
                to say
                                        you haven't had a
        number
                                                     of such
                experiences,
Michael ...
                just some
                                        number actually)

                                                     Andy

        ------------------------------------------------------------

                                                     *Andy
        Blunden*
        http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
        <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
                <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
<http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
                      <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>

                                                     On
        17/07/2015
                1:19
                                        AM, Glassman,
        Michael wrote:

Hi Larry
                and all,

                                                         I
        think
                this is
                                        one of the most
        complex
         aspects of
                                        experience, what
        does he mean
when he
                says you
                                        can't do things
                 indiscriminately
                                        and have vital
          experience, but
                                        you also can't plan
         things?         I have
                                        discussed (argued)
        about
this a
                lot with
                                        my students. I have
          especially seen
                                        him raise this
        point in at
least two
                of his
                                        great works, Democracy
                                                         and
                Education and
                                        Experience and
        Nature -
and again of
                                        course in Art as
        Experience
         (notice
                he is not
                                        saying how Art enters
                                                         into
                experience
                                        but how art is
        experience
                                                         -
        I have
                come to
                                        notice these little
         things
                more and
                                        more in his writing).

                                                         The
                difficulty we
                                        have, at least in the
         United States
                                        because of the
        dominance of
the idea of
                                        meta-cognition, is
        that we too
                                                         often
                translate
                                        what individuals are
         bringing
                in to
                                        experience to
        organize it
as a form of
                                        meta-cognition. It
        is kind
                                                         of
                possible to
                                        make that
        interpretation
                                                         from
                Democracy
                                        and Education,
        although
what I
                think he
                                        is doing more is
        arguing
         against
                                        misinterpretations
        of his
                work as
         random, child
                                        centered activities. I
think he is
                                        clearer in
        Experience and
         Nature
                that we
                                        bring in who we
        are at the
         moment
                into the
                                        activity, and use
        who we
are (I
                don't want
                                        to say identity) as an
         organizing
                                        principle for what
        we do.  It
                                                         is
                perhaps one of
                                        the places where Dewey
                                                         and
                Vygotsky are
                                        close. Perhaps I
        can use
the same
                Jackson
                                        Pollock example.  The
first few
                times I
                                        saw his paintings
        I was
         trying to
                                        "apprecitate" them
        because
                I was
told that
                was the
                                        best way to experience
         them.         Dewey says
                                        no vital experience
                                                         there
                because my
                                        activities become
        stilted
and artificia
         l.
                Sometimes
                                        I went through the
         museum
                and just
                                        looked at
        pictures, one to
the other. No
                                        vital experience
        there,
just random
                                        threads. But that
        time I had
                                                         the
                experience
                                        with the paintings
        I was
         allowing
                who I
                                        was, what had been
        built up
in the
                trajectory
                                        of my life to
        enter into
my experience
                                        with the painting,
        making it
                                                         a
        vital
                                        experience.  I
        think Dewey
                makes
                                                         the
                argument in
                                        Experience and
        Nature that
it is not
                just
                                        the experience the
        moment
         before,
                but the
                                        experiences leading to
                                                         that
                experience,
                                        the context of my
        life,
                                                         of my
                parent's
                                        life, of a long
        line of
         historical
                                        experiences.

         Anyway,
                my take.

         Michael

                                                         -





                                        --
                                        Beth Ferholt
                                        Assistant Professor
                                        Department of Early
                Childhood and
                                        Art Education
                                        Brooklyn College, City
                University
                                        of New York
                                        2900 Bedford Avenue
                                        Brooklyn, NY
        11210-2889

                                        Email:
        bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
        <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
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        <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>>>>
                                        Phone: (718)
        951-5205 <tel:%28718%29%20951-5205>
                <tel:%28718%29%20951-5205>
                <tel:%28718%29%20951-5205>
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                                --

                                Both environment and species
                change in the
                                course of time, and thus
                                ecological niches are not
        stable
                and given
                                forever (Polotova & Storch,
                                Ecological Niche, 2008)



                            --

                            Both environment and species
        change in the
                            course of time, and thus
                            ecological niches are not
        stable and given
                            forever (Polotova & Storch,
                            Ecological Niche, 2008)







                --         Beth Ferholt
                Assistant Professor
                Department of Early Childhood and Art
        Education
                Brooklyn College, City University of New York
                2900 Bedford Avenue
                Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889

                Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
        <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
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                Phone: (718) 951-5205
        <tel:%28718%29%20951-5205> <tel:%28718%29%20951-5205>
                Fax: (718) 951-4816
        <tel:%28718%29%20951-4816> <tel:%28718%29%20951-4816>





-- Beth Ferholt
        Assistant Professor
        Department of Early Childhood and Art Education
        Brooklyn College, City University of New York
        2900 Bedford Avenue
        Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889

        Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
        <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
        <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
        <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>>
        Phone: (718) 951-5205 <tel:%28718%29%20951-5205>
        Fax: (718) 951-4816 <tel:%28718%29%20951-4816>





--
Beth Ferholt
Assistant Professor
Department of Early Childhood and Art Education
Brooklyn College, City University of New York
2900 Bedford Avenue
Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889

Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
Phone: (718) 951-5205
Fax: (718) 951-4816