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[Xmca-l] Re: Resending LSV/ANL on crisis in ontogengy



Thanks for calling attention to the Bozhovich (2004), Mike.   Nice to notice the play of drives and SSDs, in it, especially.
When the child is organized  in/by an SSD, could we say there is learning going on that might lead to development?  But at first it isn't development, just learning?  (And/or can we say the child/adolescent starts with "merely understood" but not "really effective" motives?)  So the a child might do something because "mommy says so" and when a teacher comes into it her life she might  add or switch to "teacher says so" and add or switch what's being done, too.  Sort of disappointing (maybe even embarrassing perhaps to the teacher) but the child is organized by and acting "as if" they are participants in/co-constructors of the school SSD.  So there's a ground that the figure might develop in, a petri dish type of culture for the child's future...
I like to think of the morphology of the word "organ-ize" -- the child is a different organ when they get to develop so that the motive of/in the SSD is really effective.  

I'm hoping Martin Packer will link it to his points in his post about Tomasello...

Peg

PS  Maybe it's my old age but I get a kick out of reading a highlighted PDF -- get the feeling of a sort of  illicit reading over someone's shoulder!  It's in real contrast to the annoyance I used to get from paper copies with other folks' highlighting or underlining.

-----Original Message-----
From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2015 11:55 AM
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Resending LSV/ANL on crisis in ontogengy

I find it a little odd to think that SSD has little to do with biological maturation.
So few 6 month olds get married these days.

However, the "structuring of forms the child does not yet 'have' " is certainly central to the sociocultural organization of human development. Among other things, mismatches in timing between adult normative expectations and child behaviors associated with, say, the maturation of bowel control or the ability to sit quietly at a desk for several hours at a time might just give rise to the kinds of phenomena that lSV refers to as crises.

I am not sure. What are the criteria for a crisis? Are they generally agreed upon and to be found in practice-guiding texts for, say, professional pediatricians?

It seems that the attached may be relevant to several of the remarks in this thread.

Uncertain-in-so-cal
mike

http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Mail/xmcamail.2013_01.dir/pdf5I3He7qyRQ.pdf


On Sat, Mar 21, 2015 at 6:21 PM, Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I think I agree with that (that SSD has little to do with biological 
> maturation).
>
> This is actually, to my reading, a subtle yet very appropriate passage 
> that Peg has unearthed or recollected.
>
> These things that the child really does need, wherein the child 
> conveys "I cannot get on without this", is a reference to materials 
> that enable the structuring of forms that the child does not yet have, 
> i.e. they are necessary (but perhaps insufficient on their own) means 
> to their development of neo-formations, or, indeed, transformations in 
> their way of knowing.
>
> The sense I get is that this imperative is not derived from a need to 
> comply with bureaucratic processes (e.g. black shoes must be worn at 
> school), but with a recognition that something objective and 
> fundamental cannot be achieved without it.
>
> Huw
>
>
> On 22 March 2015 at 00:38, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
>
> > p. 365, "The Child's Psyche":
> >
> > "A child may or may not be bought a toy, but it is impossible not to 
> > buy it a textbook or an exercise book. The child therefore requests 
> > a schoolbook to be bought for it quite differently to how it asks 
> > for a toy to be bought. These requests have a different sense not 
> > only for its parents but above all for the child itself."
> >
> > I was thinking, in relation to Huw's issues, that really SSD is 
> > little to do with "biological maturation." It is to do with the 
> > normative series of roles, and these are found in bureaucracies as 
> > well as the modern life
> of a
> > child.
> >
> > Andy
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----
> > *Andy Blunden*
> > http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
> >
> >
> > Peg Griffin wrote:
> >
> >> Thinking of growth which challenges social arrangements, Andy, am I 
> >> mistakenly remembering an anecdote like the following in Leontiev's 
> >> "Problems in the Development of Mind:"  A child not yet going to 
> >> school
> and
> >> a child going to school have different "calls" on the family to buy
> pencils
> >> or crayons -- might be nice for the younger one but absolute need 
> >> for
> the
> >> older one.   I hope this scenario is really there (or somewhere not
> just in
> >> my internal constructions] because in it socio-cultural 
> >> institutions
> impact
> >> one another and pull in the individual's growth while doing it and 
> >> then there's a wonderful arabesque rebound to the individual.
> >> [Sorry I don't right now have a copy and a way to get to where this
> might
> >> be in the Leontiev book.  Hint:) I'm really pretty sure it's far 
> >> away
> from
> >> the part about trying to teach forearm cells to recognize light! ] 
> >> Peg
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>



--
It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch.