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[Xmca-l] Re: Laws of evolution and laws of history



Rod-- I am in strong agreement with the sentiments in this note, which
makes me think the other is perhaps really responding to someone else on
the thread-- I am barely keeping up.

Yes, in a world where human psychological processes are assumed to be
distributed, specifying "what the learner knows"
(start where the child is) becomes a lot more complicated .

In my own teaching experience, the richest educational experiences occur in
practicum courses where the students
are part of a team doing something that matters, is uncertain, and never
perfect.... and then talking about it through
texts with a history of value as thinking tools. The good part about large
lecture halls is the requirement to be systematic, legible, and
interesting, but it is a terrible place for real dialogue.

mike

On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 10:51 AM, Rod Parker-Rees <
R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk> wrote:

> Henry,
>
> Yes indeed, my first ever, hand-written overhead transparency when I moved
> from teaching 4-5 year olds to teaching undergraduate students was from
> David Ausubel
>
> 'If I had to reduce all of educational psychology to just one principle, I
> would say this: the most important single factor influencing learning is
> what the learner already knows. Ascertain this and teach him accordingly.'
>  (Ausubel, Novak, & Hanesian, 1978, pp. iv & 163)
>
> Over the past 20+ years what has changed enormously is my own
> understanding of what is meant by 'what the learner already knows' - now
> much more focused on attitudes and dispositions than on declarative,
> explicit knowledge. Creating the conditions in which students feel
> comfortable about pushing back, when this is often not what their secondary
> education has prepared them for, is still a challenge. I couldn't agree
> more, though, with your comment about learning most from students who do
> help to create a real dialogue.
>
> Rod
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:
> xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD
> Sent: 17 January 2015 18:30
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Laws of evolution and laws of history
>
> Rod,
> A rule of thumb in teaching is that before you start teaching something
> new you find out what the students already know about a topic. One way to
> do that is to ask “grand tour” questions. Divergent questions, accepting
> anything students know, or think they know. Convergent, or “leading
> questions” are meant to direct students to the “right” answers. The point
> is that good teaching is built around questions and dialog. For a long time
> I have felt that I learn the most from students who push back, who question
> the curriculum. That isn’t comfortable.
> Henry
>
> > On Jan 17, 2015, at 2:50 AM, Rod Parker-Rees <
> R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> > Mike - is it too simplistic to say that education is about leading out
> (divergence) whereas propaganda is about leading in (convergence)? If you
> know before you begin exactly what you want your students to end up knowing
> and believing you may be more engaged in propaganda than education.
> >
> > Rod
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> > [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole
> > Sent: 17 January 2015 02:46
> > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Laws of evolution and laws of history
> >
> > Oh! I see what you are discussing. The Park that used to celebrate the
> > great achievements of the USSR on Peace Street.
> >
> > A really good Vygotskian analysis of the term, propaganda, would be
> > fascinating to read.
> > As I recall the word came into the English language from Latin and a
> > Papal decision to "propogate the faith". Seems apt in the Soviet case.
> > At the level of social interaction where we are professionally
> > involved and have some presumably, useful knowledge to propagate (why
> > else do They pay for us?), how do we think of self presentation that is
> NOT propagating?
> >
> > When teaching, this topic comes up in seeking to get students to
> > distinguish between education and propaganda, starting with the course
> > they are taking from me on the history of communication and with it,
> > the history of propaganda.
> >
> > So what is the difference between education and propaganda. My
> > students and I often had difficulty distinguishing them.
> >
> >
> > mike
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 5:24 PM, Annalisa Aguilar <annalisa@unm.edu>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Philip,
> >>
> >> Yes, because if we go by the rubric of [sign mediates internally with
> >> the mind], and [tool mediates externally with the environment], which
> >> I do not reject by the way, then propaganda (as intended), is a tool
> >> to the one who produces it (because it is intended to influence the
> >> environment of others, and a sign for those who consume it (the
> intended others to be influenced).
> >>
> >> My inquiry isn't exactly upon traditionally-considered political
> >> propaganda; one could also see advertising as a type of propaganda as
> well.
> >> Even punishment and humiliations can be a type of propaganda, "pour
> >> encourager les autres."
> >>
> >> In a sense, propaganda is a kind of duck-rabbit. You see duck, I see
> >> rabbit, depending upon what is externally projected/internally
> >> received; nothing changes about the drawing itself, it's all perception.
> >>
> >> Is this too facile? I feel there may be problems, and appeal to the
> >> list to correct me on this. :)
> >>
> >> Thinking out loud... your mileage may vary!
> >>
> >> Kind regards,
> >>
> >> Annalisa
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal with a natural science as an
> > object that creates history. Ernst Boesch.
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-- 
It is the dilemma of psychology to deal with a natural science as an object
that creates history. Ernst Boesch.