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[Xmca-l] Re: Rhythm



Annalisa, Rod and Larry, and y’all,
My perspective:
I see myself engaged in a dialog going at the speed of thinking, looking both “forward” and “back” (to use Rod’s thinking) from where I am as I write. Dan Slobin, the great psycholinguist, has said that the charges of language can be in tension: two of those charges are to be quick (so as not to lose the “thread” one’s own thinking and/or the attention of one's audience) and expressive (so as to do justice to the complexity of the thinking). Andy’s unit of analysis, collaborative project (for example, this thread), is especially useful where he quotes Shakespeare:

“There is a tide in the affairs of men.
Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune;
Omitted, all the voyage of their life
Is bound in shallows and in miseries."
[Julius Caesar, Act 4]

I see Rod’s image of jazz improvisation as “yes and" and Larry’s third space as analogous. The musical metaphor reeks of rhythm and creativity. Construing this harmonious space more generally, I see respectful gesture as fundamental. 
Larry asks the question (a respectful gesture):

> "The metaphor of "carrier wave" points towards notions of the "ear" and
> "hearing" meaning that Hutto suggests is at the level of "basic"
> cognition.  How is this kind of meaning [thinking and speech within
> "carrier waves"] related to meaning as conceptual [thought and language]?"

I cannot answer the question, but I can suggest the following, using Larry’s morphological analysis of “possibility”. Larry says,

> '[posse meaning "can" & ibilas as a suffix changing posse/"can" to an
> adjective].
> So "possibility" [as if] and "can" as action are intimately related within
> "carrier waves”'

Let me go one step further with the analysis: “ity” make the adjective “possible" into a noun. So the English, not unlike other languages, allows us to go from verb to adjective to noun very quickly and does so with a tremendously condensed ability for expressiveness. This morphological stacking is part of grammar. 

I would suggest that the “carrier wave” of rhythm within the flow of speech and thinking is linked in real time with the conceptual thinking allowed by grammar. If we think of the flow of speech as phonological processing, and the flow of thought as semantic processing, then we can usefully call language use the coordination in real time of the phonological and the semantic. So how do we get to grammar?

Henry
 



 


> On Jan 11, 2015, at 9:06 AM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> Annalisa, Henry, Rod
> 
> The perspective:
> 
>  a shared rhythm, whether at the level of embodied co-movement, patterned
> sound or, over a longer timescale, traditional patterns of activity,
> provides a 'carrier wave' over which very subtle nuances of meaning can be
> communicated.
> 
> The metaphor of "carrier wave" points towards notions of the "ear" and
> "hearing" meaning that Hutto suggests is at the level of "basic"
> cognition.  How is this kind of meaning [thinking and speech within
> "carrier waves"] related to meaning as conceptual [thought and language]?
> 
> The phrase "hearing each other into voice" [even when reading silently] I
> am suggesting is an aspect of "third spaces" as places of socially situated
> intersubjective dialogue. In testimonies, our readings are returned to our
> "interpretive communities" and in this return  "possibilities" open up in
> this third space.
> 
> [posse meaning "can" & ibilas as a suffix changing posse/"can" to an
> adjective].
> So "possibility" [as if] and "can" as action are intimately related within
> "carrier waves"
> 
> Larry
> 
> On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 3:59 AM, Rod Parker-Rees <
> R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk <mailto:R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk>> wrote:
> 
>> I think your quote from Lashley makes a very useful point - that
>> communication often depends on interventions within a continuing flow of
>> interaction. The meaning is not in the message so much as in how the
>> message is placed in this flow, how it refers back to what the speaker can
>> assume the listener will recognise and relate to and how it refers forward
>> to a possible future state of relationships etc. I think this relates to
>> Annalisa's posting about rhythmic entrainment because a shared rhythm,
>> whether at the level of embodied co-movement, patterned sound or, over a
>> longer timescale, traditional patterns of activity, provides a 'carrier
>> wave' over which very subtle nuances of meaning can be communicated. As an
>> example - when a musician performs a familiar piece of music, which is
>> already familiar to many in the audience, very small variations in how the
>> piece is performed can communicate a great deal about the performer's
>> relationship with the piece. Or - where people are required to wear any
>> form of uniform, small variations in how it is worn may communicate much
>> about the wearer. I suppose this could be seen in terms of the 'yes and'
>> rule in improvisation - go with the flow/rhythm but also add something to
>> it.
>> So while there may be much to be gained from losing oneself in the crowd
>> it is also possible to find distinctiveness among the co-participants in a
>> crowd activity.
>> 
>> This reminds me of what I think was an inspired piece of teaching which is
>> presented in the catalogue of the exhibition of children's work from the
>> Reggio Emilia preschools in Northern Italy - in a project focusing on
>> crowds children were asked to choose one person in a photograph of a crowd
>> seen and to imagine what that person was thinking - the children drew their
>> chosen person and added a bubble to show the person's thoughts. In this way
>> the children were encouraged to recognise the individuality of each member
>> of the crowd and this was carried on into their representation of a crowd
>> in clay figures - each figure was given its own unique identity in the form
>> of clothes, shoes, accessories etc. This struck me as a powerful learning
>> opportunity in preschools which were developed with the express intention
>> of preventing any resurgence of fascism in this part of Italy.
>> 
>> All the best,
>> 
>> Rod
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: xmca-l-bounces+rod.parker-rees=plymouth.ac.uk@mailman.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca-l-bounces+rod.parker-rees=plymouth.ac.uk@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces+rod.parker-rees=plymouth.ac.uk@mailman.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca-l-bounces+rod.parker-rees=plymouth.ac.uk@mailman.ucsd.edu>]
>> On Behalf Of HENRY SHONERD
>> Sent: 10 January 2015 18:36
>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Rhythm
>> 
>> The link proffered by Annalisa has a section on hiving and rhythmic
>> entainment, a phenomenon that I have been interested in for years. I see it
>> in the morning flights of pigeons that fly overhead as I do tai chi and in
>> the migration of geese, ducks and cranes twice a year here in central New
>> Mexico. This morning, as I took part in a dance-exercise class, I took part
>> in a rhythmically entrained activity. I have read about rhythmic
>> entrainment in the interactions of child and caregiver that Vera first made
>> me aware of as a prime aspect of language acquisition. I see it in the work
>> of McNeill on the rhythmic integration of gesture and speech.  Karl Lashley
>> said the following in 1951:
>> 
>> "My principal thesis today will be that the input is never into a
>> quiescent or static system, but always into a system which is already
>> actively excited and organized. In the intact organism, behavior is the
>> result of interaction of this background of excitation with input from any
>> designated stimulus. Only when we can state the general charac- teristics
>> of this background of excitation, can we understand the effects of a given
>> input."
>> 
>> Whether within an organism, or in interactions between organisms, this
>> suggests a rhythmic pulse underlying activity and development, and that the
>> temporal domain is, in some sense, what underlies all of creation. I would
>> like to propose that this rhythmic entrainment fits nicely with Hutto's
>> radical embodiment/enactive cognition (REC) hypothesis proferred by Larry.
>> 
>> I was wondering what others think about rhythm and all that jazz.
>> 
>> Henry
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 9, 2015, at 11:20 AM, Annalisa Aguilar <annalisa@unm.edu <mailto:annalisa@unm.edu>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello sundry discussants!
>>> 
>>> ?This landed in my email box this morning and figured it was a pretty
>> catchy title that may intrigue others here on the list as much as me!
>>> 
>>> I am practicing something I don't like to, which is post a link of
>> something I haven't finished reading, with the risk I may not agree with it.
>>> 
>>> However, then I thought I don't have to agree with everything I post on
>> the list, do I? So just to say it is possible that I read it and be remiss
>> that I shared it...
>>> 
>>> Still, it can be looked at what kinds of writing are going on about
>> consciousness out there, "outside." It may contribute to further discussion
>> of the ideology of individualism?
>>> 
>>> For what its worth? here's the link below...
>>> 
>>> Kind regards,
>>> 
>>> Annalisa
>>> 
>>> Ritual and the Consciousness Monoculture
>>> 
>>> 
>> http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2015/01/08/ritual-and-the-consciousness-monoculture/ <http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2015/01/08/ritual-and-the-consciousness-monoculture/>
>>> 
>>> by Editor on January 8, 2015
>>> 
>>> Sarah Perry is a guest blogger who blogs at Carcinisation<
>> http://carcinisation.com> and is the author of Every Cradle is a Grave:
>> Rethinking the Ethics of Birth and Suicide<
>> http://www.amazon.com/Every-Cradle-Is-Grave-Rethinking/dp/0989697290/>.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
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