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[Xmca-l] Re: Sociocritical Literacies and more context



I am late to this but definitely love the idea of listening as part of this thread.
Henry

> On Jan 3, 2015, at 12:24 PM, Helena Worthen <helenaworthen@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Greg -- that's a great idea.  I think is has been done, but without a label. Want to nominate an example?
> 
> Helena
> 
> 
> Helena Worthen
> helenaworthen@gmail.com
> 
> On Jan 3, 2015, at 8:21 AM, Greg Thompson wrote:
> 
>> Seems to me that Spivak's "Can the subaltern speak?" is just as much a
>> question of "Can the Western intellectual hear/listen?"
>> 
>> Makes me wonder about articulating a Pedagogy of the Oppressors.
>> 
>> -greg
>> 
>> On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 7:58 AM, Aria Razfar <arazfar@uic.edu> wrote:
>> 
>>> Miguel/Mike,
>>> 
>>> I think we have a testimonio here. We have questions borne out of a
>>> traumatic historical and social episode (WWII), followed by a movement
>>> outward "going East," only to discover one's self "Dewey." The self becomes
>>> an allegory for the whole. It may seem that Spivak is saying translation is
>>> impossible, but I think a testimonio shows the possibility of translation.
>>> Thanks for this gift and happy new year!
>>> 
>>> Aria
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:
>>> xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 2:23 PM
>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Sociocritical Literacies and more context
>>> 
>>> I inherited such questions as part of my family history and my coming to
>>> age during the period of post world war II decolonization, Aria, well
>>> before I travelled East, as you suggest. Interestingly, it was in going in
>>> East that I discovered Dewey.... such was the form of education that led to
>>> my phd.
>>> 
>>> Concerning misleading translations.
>>> I have PLENTY of problems with issues of translating Vygotsky, in words
>>> and in practice! Ask any Russian or scholar whose knowledge of Russian was
>>> acquired after the age of 20! (Plenty right here on xmca, one I can see
>>> logged into gmail right now). There is a piece in MCA a while back on the
>>> perils of translating a key term involving eaching/learning/instruction
>>> that is part of an ongoing set of questions about the meaning of the term,
>>> zone of proximal development.
>>> 
>>> Peter's note with the distinction between decolonial/postcolonial seems to
>>> pick up on some of the themes that various folks who participated in the
>>> Migrant program are making.  Gotta check out wikipedia on third spaces. The
>>> metaphor sure has a lot of homes in a lot of discourse communities and I
>>> suspect that some translation will be needed!
>>> 
>>> mike
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 11:49 AM, Aria Razfar <arazfar@uic.edu> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Mike, would you say that you have been seeking answers to these
>>>> questions by "going East"? I think Spivak would agree with the second
>>>> question. In "Translating into English" she talks about how
>>>> "generations of empiricist English translators have missed the point
>>>> with Marx's philosophical presuppositions, translated 'inhaltslos' as
>>>> 'slight in content' and thus made nonsense out of the entire
>>>> discussion of value. You may have had a smiliar experience translating
>>> Vygotsky.
>>>> 
>>>> Here it is:
>>>> 
>>>> http://przeklad.nazwa.pl/schowek/spivak2.pdf
>>>> 
>>>> Aria
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:
>>>> xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 1:07 PM
>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Sociocritical Literacies and more context
>>>> 
>>>> Aria--- I had not read the Spivak article, although the question she
>>>> asks is one I have been asking myself for half a century. And, I would
>>>> add, under what conditions?
>>>> 
>>>> I found the article here in case others share my ignorance.
>>>> mike
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.mcgill.ca/files/crclaw-discourse/Can_the_subaltern_speak.pd
>>>> f
>>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Aria Razfar <arazfar@uic.edu> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Larry,
>>>>> 
>>>>> The specific stance that is amplified by the intersections of "third
>>>>> space" post-colonial theory, sociocultural theory, and "testimonio"
>>>>> is somewhat apparent in the language choice. There is no English
>>>>> equivalent because there cannot be an English equivalent. At least,
>>>>> there cannot be an "English-Only" equivalent. It represents a
>>>>> movement toward an indigenous stance on voice, agency, knowledge,
>>>>> certainty, validity, language choice, and learning. I say a "movement
>>> toward"
>>>>> because Spanish itself carries similar baggage especially within the
>>>>> Latin American context. This is the rationale for why some use the
>>>>> Aztec idea of Nepantla instead of "Third Space" (e.g., Rochelle
>>>>> Guiterrez, Gloria Anzaldua). "Testimonio" further complicates what
>>>>> it means for "subalterns" to "reclaim voice" through the dominant
>>> voice.
>>>>> This is the heart-wrenching question raised by Spivak, "Can the
>>>>> subaltern speak?" Both the altern and the subaltern need to "step
>>>>> outside" the inscribed institutional roles, together in order to
>>>>> move "to the roots of our being human together." Spivak was
>>>>> specfically critiqueing "the Western intellectual" voice wondering
>>>>> if it truly could be a tool of liberation. It seems like a "core"
>>>>> identity question as we move through various historical
>>>>> entanglements seeking answers to ontological questions of self in
>>>>> relation to other. Also
>>>> looking forward to this type of re-search.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Aria
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Aria Razfar, Ph.D.
>>>>> Associate Professor of Literacy, Language, and Culture Director of
>>>>> Graduate Studies, Curriculum and Instruction University of Illinois
>>>>> at Chicago
>>>>> 1040 W. Harrison St. M/C 147
>>>>> Chicago, IL, 60607
>>>>> 
>>>>> Director of English Learning through Mathematics, Science and Action
>>>>> Research (ELMSA) www.elmsa.org
>>>>> 
>>>>> Webpage: http://education.uic.edu/personnel/faculty/aria-razfar-phd
>>>>> Tel: 312-413-8373
>>>>> Fax: 312-996-8134
>>>>> 
>>>>> This is the heart-wrenching question raised by Spivak, "Can the
>>>>> subaltern speak?" Both the altern and the subaltern need to "step
>>>>> outside" the inscribed roles, together in order to move "to the
>>>>> roots of our being human together." It seems like a "core" identity
>>>>> question as we move through various historical entanglements seeking
>>>>> answers to ontological questions of self in relation to other. Also
>>>>> looking forward to this type of re-search.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Aria
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces+arazfar=uic.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:
>>>>> xmca-l-bounces+arazfar=uic.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Larry
>>>>> xmca-l-bounces+Purss
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 10:08 PM
>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Sociocritical Literacies and more context
>>>>> 
>>>>> Aria,
>>>>> I want to repeat and amplify your suggestion :
>>>>> 
>>>>> It is important to clarify what is meant by "third space" and its
>>>>> analogous concepts in various schools of thought (e.g., liminality,
>>>>> double consciousness, third place, etc.). The post-colonial uptake
>>>>> of third space (e.g., Said, Bhaba, Spivak) within the sociocultural
>>>>> theory is a very specific stance and this might be the moment for
>>>>> that
>>>> conversation as well.
>>>>> 
>>>>> To focus on the *third space* as a VERY SPECIFIC stance.
>>>>> I would like to become clear on the centrality of *witnessing* as
>>>>> central or the re-search fades away.
>>>>> Also terms such as *mutuality* contrasted with *reciprocity* or
>>>>> *transactions*.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Testimonios as neither subjective [alone] or objective [alone] but a
>>>>> hybrid MODE that is a form of witnessing.
>>>>> I would also suggest the theme of *gift* as more than transaction or
>>>>> echange [in continental philosophy traditions] is relevant.
>>>>> 
>>>>> There is a *spirit* and a moral virtue within this form of
>>>>> witnessing as *third space* that plays around with notions of
>>>>> *trans* as moving across forms [horizons] as trans-versals [or
>>> trans-verse-als] .
>>>>> I have an intuition that this type of witnessing is radical, going
>>>>> to the roots of our being human together.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Aria, I look forward to further re-search Larry
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 12:00 PM, Aria Razfar <arazfar@uic.edu> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> For those of us working with Kris' sociocritical perspective,
>>>>>> third space has been a valuable construct for thinking about
>>>>>> collective learning zopeds and consciousness for that matter. It
>>>>>> is important to clarify what is meant by "third space" and its
>>>>>> analogous concepts in various schools of thought (e.g.,
>>>>>> liminality, double consciousness, third place, etc.). The
>>>>>> post-colonial uptake of third space (e.g., Said, Bhaba, Spivak)
>>>>>> within the sociocultural theory is a very specific stance and this
>>>>>> might be the moment for that conversation as
>>>>> well.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Aria
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Aria Razfar, Ph.D.
>>>>>> Associate Professor of Literacy, Language, and Culture Director of
>>>>>> Graduate Studies, Curriculum and Instruction University of
>>>>>> Illinois at Chicago
>>>>>> 1040 W. Harrison St. M/C 147
>>>>>> Chicago, IL, 60607
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Director of English Learning through Mathematics, Science and
>>>>>> Action Research (ELMSA) www.elmsa.org
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Webpage:
>>>>>> http://education.uic.edu/personnel/faculty/aria-razfar-phd
>>>>>> Tel: 312-413-8373
>>>>>> Fax: 312-996-8134
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>>>>> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Kris
>>>>>> Gutierrez
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 2:56 PM
>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Sociocritical Literacies and more context
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Annalisa, Manuel initiated the last uptake. (I think others have
>>>>>> clarified that now :)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mike C., Miguel Zavala, Larry Purss and I posted some thoughts
>>>>>> before the holidays.  For me it is useful to connect Manuel’s
>>>>>> recent post to those earlier thoughts/conversations.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Some very quick very unedited thoughts following up on Manuel’s post:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Michael G., Mike C. correctly points out that the
>>>>>> testimonios/autobiographies were not research techniques but
>>>>>> generative tools that were indeed a part of the interconnected set
>>>>>> of practices that created a collective zoped—a third space if you
>>> will.
>>>>>> I try to elaborate this idea in the Scribner Lecture piece
>>>>>> (sociocritical literacies).  My own work on Third Space, the
>>>>>> collective work of the instructional team of MSI, ongoing
>>>>>> conversations with Mike C. and Yrjo over the years at the lab, and
>>>>>> their work certainly informed this idea of a collective zoped,
>>>>>> collective third space  (See Engeström, 1987, 1994 in particular;
>>>>>> Nicolopoulou & Cole, 1993; Tuomi-Gröhn & Engeström, 2003; Tuomi-
>>>>>> Gröhn, Engeström, & Young, 2003; Chaiklin, 2003, Moll, 1990; Moll
>>>>>> & Greenberg, 1990 as key examples that certainly inform this work
>>>>>> as
>>>> well.
>>>>> And LSV and Bakhtin are ever present).
>>>>>> These, I think, are useful references, all cited in the article.
>>>>>> Shirin Vossoughi’s recent MCA piece also is very relevant to this
>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Some relevant excerpts from the sociocritical article,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "To illustrate these points and their relation to a collective
>>>>>> Third Space, let us examine the MSLI more closely.
>>>>>> The activity system, the MSLI, has a specific internal logic
>>>>>> organized around expanding the students’ sociohistorical and
>>>>>> educational ecology through the collective imagining of a new
>>>>>> educational and sociopolitical future.
>>>>>> To avoid the “interactional reductionism implicit in much
>>>>>> Vygotskian-inspired research” (Nicolopoulou & Cole, 1993, p. 284),
>>>>>> the specific interactions and practices of the MSLI are understood
>>>>>> as what Nicolopoulou and Cole call a “genuinely collective reality”
>>>> (p. 284).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Here we see the [Migrant] institute as an example of the Third
>>>>>> Space, a collective zo-ped, at the larger level of activity the
>>>>>> object of which is the sociohistorical reconstruction of what it
>>>>>> means to be a migrant student.
>>>>>> This movement involves a process of becoming conscious “historical
>>>>> actors”
>>>>>> (Espinoza, 2003) who invoke the past in order to re-mediate it so
>>>>>> that it becomes a resource for current and future action (p. 154)."
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Testimonios and their embodiment in Teatro del Oprimido (Boal’s
>>>>>> Theatre of the Oppressed that Manuel introduced to us and the
>>>>>> program and that he and Vossoughi elaborated) were key means of
>>>>>> developing/inciting a new social and pedagogical imagination and
>>>>>> for imagining new futures with/for the migrant students, their
>>>>>> communities, and indeed for all of us, as Manuel so thoughtfully
>>>>>> writes. Teatro served as a collective problem-solving space—a
>>>>>> space where the playful imagination helped to make inequities and
>>>>>> the roots of social problems visible, while providing an
>>>>>> opportunity to re-frame events, re-mediate and enact an imagined
>>>>>> future collectively (such as flying collectively/social dreaming).
>>>>>> I hope Manuel and Shirin jump in and elaborate these thoughts.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Re: Research design:  For me, Migrant was in Yrjo and Mike's
>>>>>> approach, a formative experiment; what I term social design
>>>>>> experiments—a designed based research approach that foregrounds
>>>>>> equity, diversity, historicity, and re-mediation, for example. As
>>>>>> Susan Jurow and I wrote and presented at the ICLS conference this
>>>>>> summer (a piece that we expect will be part of a larger set of
>>>>>> papers with Mike C., Yrjo and Annalisa, and Bill Penuel), social
>>>>>> design experiments: aim to make possible a sustainable and
>>>>>> dignified life for all humans; address the challenges of
>>>>>> leveraging cultural diversity and reducing social inequality; and
>>>>>> call for the co-design of new tools and futures with members of
>>>>>> non-dominant communities, as but a few key design principles.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>    Absolutely, research as re-searching—searching for the answer
>>>>>> to a question you have searched for repeatedly without success!
>>>>>> Well said, Miguel Cole! Thanks, for your thoughts, Michael Glassman!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>    more on sociocritical literacies, later.   kris
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Kris Gutierrez
>>>>>> gutierkd@gmail.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Kris D. Gutiérrez
>>>>>> Professor
>>>>>> Graduate School of Education
>>>>>> 5629 Tolman Hall #1670
>>>>>> University of California, Berkeley Berkeley CA 94720-1670
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Distinguished Professor
>>>>>> Learning Sciences and Literacy
>>>>>> School of Education
>>>>>> University of Colorado, Boulder
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Dec 30, 2014, at 9:50 AM, Annalisa Aguilar <annalisa@unm.edu>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hello!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sorry for being silly here, but I couldn't help but see that so
>>>>>>> far on
>>>>>> this thread, there have been appearances by:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> mike, Annalisa, Michael, Luisa, and Miguel!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal with a natural science as an
>>>> object that creates history. Ernst Boesch.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal with a natural science as an
>>> object that creates history. Ernst Boesch.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
>> Assistant Professor
>> Department of Anthropology
>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
>> Brigham Young University
>> Provo, UT 84602
>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
> 
>