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[Xmca-l] Re: Sociocritical Literacies and more context



Seems to me that Spivak's "Can the subaltern speak?" is just as much a
question of "Can the Western intellectual hear/listen?"

Makes me wonder about articulating a Pedagogy of the Oppressors.

-greg

On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 7:58 AM, Aria Razfar <arazfar@uic.edu> wrote:

> Miguel/Mike,
>
> I think we have a testimonio here. We have questions borne out of a
> traumatic historical and social episode (WWII), followed by a movement
> outward "going East," only to discover one's self "Dewey." The self becomes
> an allegory for the whole. It may seem that Spivak is saying translation is
> impossible, but I think a testimonio shows the possibility of translation.
> Thanks for this gift and happy new year!
>
> Aria
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:
> xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole
> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 2:23 PM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Sociocritical Literacies and more context
>
> I inherited such questions as part of my family history and my coming to
> age during the period of post world war II decolonization, Aria, well
> before I travelled East, as you suggest. Interestingly, it was in going in
> East that I discovered Dewey.... such was the form of education that led to
> my phd.
>
> Concerning misleading translations.
> I have PLENTY of problems with issues of translating Vygotsky, in words
> and in practice! Ask any Russian or scholar whose knowledge of Russian was
> acquired after the age of 20! (Plenty right here on xmca, one I can see
> logged into gmail right now). There is a piece in MCA a while back on the
> perils of translating a key term involving eaching/learning/instruction
> that is part of an ongoing set of questions about the meaning of the term,
> zone of proximal development.
>
> Peter's note with the distinction between decolonial/postcolonial seems to
> pick up on some of the themes that various folks who participated in the
> Migrant program are making.  Gotta check out wikipedia on third spaces. The
> metaphor sure has a lot of homes in a lot of discourse communities and I
> suspect that some translation will be needed!
>
> mike
>
> On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 11:49 AM, Aria Razfar <arazfar@uic.edu> wrote:
>
> >
> > Mike, would you say that you have been seeking answers to these
> > questions by "going East"? I think Spivak would agree with the second
> > question. In "Translating into English" she talks about how
> > "generations of empiricist English translators have missed the point
> > with Marx's philosophical presuppositions, translated 'inhaltslos' as
> > 'slight in content' and thus made nonsense out of the entire
> > discussion of value. You may have had a smiliar experience translating
> Vygotsky.
> >
> > Here it is:
> >
> > http://przeklad.nazwa.pl/schowek/spivak2.pdf
> >
> > Aria
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:
> > xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 1:07 PM
> > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Sociocritical Literacies and more context
> >
> > Aria--- I had not read the Spivak article, although the question she
> > asks is one I have been asking myself for half a century. And, I would
> > add, under what conditions?
> >
> > I found the article here in case others share my ignorance.
> > mike
> >
> > http://www.mcgill.ca/files/crclaw-discourse/Can_the_subaltern_speak.pd
> > f
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Aria Razfar <arazfar@uic.edu> wrote:
> >
> > > Larry,
> > >
> > > The specific stance that is amplified by the intersections of "third
> > > space" post-colonial theory, sociocultural theory, and "testimonio"
> > > is somewhat apparent in the language choice. There is no English
> > > equivalent because there cannot be an English equivalent. At least,
> > > there cannot be an "English-Only" equivalent. It represents a
> > > movement toward an indigenous stance on voice, agency, knowledge,
> > > certainty, validity, language choice, and learning. I say a "movement
> toward"
> > > because Spanish itself carries similar baggage especially within the
> > > Latin American context. This is the rationale for why some use the
> > > Aztec idea of Nepantla instead of "Third Space" (e.g., Rochelle
> > > Guiterrez, Gloria Anzaldua). "Testimonio" further complicates what
> > > it means for "subalterns" to "reclaim voice" through the dominant
> voice.
> > > This is the heart-wrenching question raised by Spivak, "Can the
> > > subaltern speak?" Both the altern and the subaltern need to "step
> > > outside" the inscribed institutional roles, together in order to
> > > move "to the roots of our being human together." Spivak was
> > > specfically critiqueing "the Western intellectual" voice wondering
> > > if it truly could be a tool of liberation. It seems like a "core"
> > > identity question as we move through various historical
> > > entanglements seeking answers to ontological questions of self in
> > > relation to other. Also
> > looking forward to this type of re-search.
> > >
> > > Aria
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Aria Razfar, Ph.D.
> > > Associate Professor of Literacy, Language, and Culture Director of
> > > Graduate Studies, Curriculum and Instruction University of Illinois
> > > at Chicago
> > > 1040 W. Harrison St. M/C 147
> > > Chicago, IL, 60607
> > >
> > > Director of English Learning through Mathematics, Science and Action
> > > Research (ELMSA) www.elmsa.org
> > >
> > > Webpage: http://education.uic.edu/personnel/faculty/aria-razfar-phd
> > > Tel: 312-413-8373
> > > Fax: 312-996-8134
> > >
> > > This is the heart-wrenching question raised by Spivak, "Can the
> > > subaltern speak?" Both the altern and the subaltern need to "step
> > > outside" the inscribed roles, together in order to move "to the
> > > roots of our being human together." It seems like a "core" identity
> > > question as we move through various historical entanglements seeking
> > > answers to ontological questions of self in relation to other. Also
> > > looking forward to this type of re-search.
> > >
> > > Aria
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: xmca-l-bounces+arazfar=uic.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:
> > > xmca-l-bounces+arazfar=uic.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Larry
> > > xmca-l-bounces+Purss
> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 10:08 PM
> > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Sociocritical Literacies and more context
> > >
> > > Aria,
> > > I want to repeat and amplify your suggestion :
> > >
> > > It is important to clarify what is meant by "third space" and its
> > > analogous concepts in various schools of thought (e.g., liminality,
> > > double consciousness, third place, etc.). The post-colonial uptake
> > > of third space (e.g., Said, Bhaba, Spivak) within the sociocultural
> > > theory is a very specific stance and this might be the moment for
> > > that
> > conversation as well.
> > >
> > > To focus on the *third space* as a VERY SPECIFIC stance.
> > > I would like to become clear on the centrality of *witnessing* as
> > > central or the re-search fades away.
> > > Also terms such as *mutuality* contrasted with *reciprocity* or
> > > *transactions*.
> > >
> > > Testimonios as neither subjective [alone] or objective [alone] but a
> > > hybrid MODE that is a form of witnessing.
> > > I would also suggest the theme of *gift* as more than transaction or
> > > echange [in continental philosophy traditions] is relevant.
> > >
> > > There is a *spirit* and a moral virtue within this form of
> > > witnessing as *third space* that plays around with notions of
> > > *trans* as moving across forms [horizons] as trans-versals [or
> trans-verse-als] .
> > > I have an intuition that this type of witnessing is radical, going
> > > to the roots of our being human together.
> > >
> > > Aria, I look forward to further re-search Larry
> > >
> > > On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 12:00 PM, Aria Razfar <arazfar@uic.edu> wrote:
> > >
> > > > For those of us working with Kris' sociocritical perspective,
> > > > third space has been a valuable construct for thinking about
> > > > collective learning zopeds and consciousness for that matter. It
> > > > is important to clarify what is meant by "third space" and its
> > > > analogous concepts in various schools of thought (e.g.,
> > > > liminality, double consciousness, third place, etc.). The
> > > > post-colonial uptake of third space (e.g., Said, Bhaba, Spivak)
> > > > within the sociocultural theory is a very specific stance and this
> > > > might be the moment for that conversation as
> > > well.
> > > >
> > > > Aria
> > > >
> > > > Aria Razfar, Ph.D.
> > > > Associate Professor of Literacy, Language, and Culture Director of
> > > > Graduate Studies, Curriculum and Instruction University of
> > > > Illinois at Chicago
> > > > 1040 W. Harrison St. M/C 147
> > > > Chicago, IL, 60607
> > > >
> > > > Director of English Learning through Mathematics, Science and
> > > > Action Research (ELMSA) www.elmsa.org
> > > >
> > > > Webpage:
> > > > http://education.uic.edu/personnel/faculty/aria-razfar-phd
> > > > Tel: 312-413-8373
> > > > Fax: 312-996-8134
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> > > > [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Kris
> > > > Gutierrez
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 2:56 PM
> > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Sociocritical Literacies and more context
> > > >
> > > > Annalisa, Manuel initiated the last uptake. (I think others have
> > > > clarified that now :)
> > > >
> > > > Mike C., Miguel Zavala, Larry Purss and I posted some thoughts
> > > > before the holidays.  For me it is useful to connect Manuel’s
> > > > recent post to those earlier thoughts/conversations.
> > > >
> > > > Some very quick very unedited thoughts following up on Manuel’s post:
> > > >
> > > > Michael G., Mike C. correctly points out that the
> > > > testimonios/autobiographies were not research techniques but
> > > > generative tools that were indeed a part of the interconnected set
> > > > of practices that created a collective zoped—a third space if you
> will.
> > > > I try to elaborate this idea in the Scribner Lecture piece
> > > > (sociocritical literacies).  My own work on Third Space, the
> > > > collective work of the instructional team of MSI, ongoing
> > > > conversations with Mike C. and Yrjo over the years at the lab, and
> > > > their work certainly informed this idea of a collective zoped,
> > > > collective third space  (See Engeström, 1987, 1994 in particular;
> > > > Nicolopoulou & Cole, 1993; Tuomi-Gröhn & Engeström, 2003; Tuomi-
> > > > Gröhn, Engeström, & Young, 2003; Chaiklin, 2003, Moll, 1990; Moll
> > > > & Greenberg, 1990 as key examples that certainly inform this work
> > > > as
> > well.
> > > And LSV and Bakhtin are ever present).
> > > > These, I think, are useful references, all cited in the article.
> > > > Shirin Vossoughi’s recent MCA piece also is very relevant to this
> > > discussion.
> > > >
> > > > Some relevant excerpts from the sociocritical article,
> > > >
> > > > "To illustrate these points and their relation to a collective
> > > > Third Space, let us examine the MSLI more closely.
> > > > The activity system, the MSLI, has a specific internal logic
> > > > organized around expanding the students’ sociohistorical and
> > > > educational ecology through the collective imagining of a new
> > > > educational and sociopolitical future.
> > > > To avoid the “interactional reductionism implicit in much
> > > > Vygotskian-inspired research” (Nicolopoulou & Cole, 1993, p. 284),
> > > > the specific interactions and practices of the MSLI are understood
> > > > as what Nicolopoulou and Cole call a “genuinely collective reality”
> > (p. 284).
> > > >
> > > > Here we see the [Migrant] institute as an example of the Third
> > > > Space, a collective zo-ped, at the larger level of activity the
> > > > object of which is the sociohistorical reconstruction of what it
> > > > means to be a migrant student.
> > > > This movement involves a process of becoming conscious “historical
> > > actors”
> > > > (Espinoza, 2003) who invoke the past in order to re-mediate it so
> > > > that it becomes a resource for current and future action (p. 154)."
> > > >
> > > > Testimonios and their embodiment in Teatro del Oprimido (Boal’s
> > > > Theatre of the Oppressed that Manuel introduced to us and the
> > > > program and that he and Vossoughi elaborated) were key means of
> > > > developing/inciting a new social and pedagogical imagination and
> > > > for imagining new futures with/for the migrant students, their
> > > > communities, and indeed for all of us, as Manuel so thoughtfully
> > > > writes. Teatro served as a collective problem-solving space—a
> > > > space where the playful imagination helped to make inequities and
> > > > the roots of social problems visible, while providing an
> > > > opportunity to re-frame events, re-mediate and enact an imagined
> > > > future collectively (such as flying collectively/social dreaming).
> > > > I hope Manuel and Shirin jump in and elaborate these thoughts.
> > > >
> > > > Re: Research design:  For me, Migrant was in Yrjo and Mike's
> > > > approach, a formative experiment; what I term social design
> > > > experiments—a designed based research approach that foregrounds
> > > > equity, diversity, historicity, and re-mediation, for example. As
> > > > Susan Jurow and I wrote and presented at the ICLS conference this
> > > > summer (a piece that we expect will be part of a larger set of
> > > > papers with Mike C., Yrjo and Annalisa, and Bill Penuel), social
> > > > design experiments: aim to make possible a sustainable and
> > > > dignified life for all humans; address the challenges of
> > > > leveraging cultural diversity and reducing social inequality; and
> > > > call for the co-design of new tools and futures with members of
> > > > non-dominant communities, as but a few key design principles.
> > > >
> > > >      Absolutely, research as re-searching—searching for the answer
> > > > to a question you have searched for repeatedly without success!
> > > > Well said, Miguel Cole! Thanks, for your thoughts, Michael Glassman!
> > > >
> > > >      more on sociocritical literacies, later.   kris
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Kris Gutierrez
> > > > gutierkd@gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > Kris D. Gutiérrez
> > > > Professor
> > > > Graduate School of Education
> > > > 5629 Tolman Hall #1670
> > > > University of California, Berkeley Berkeley CA 94720-1670
> > > >
> > > > Distinguished Professor
> > > > Learning Sciences and Literacy
> > > > School of Education
> > > > University of Colorado, Boulder
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > On Dec 30, 2014, at 9:50 AM, Annalisa Aguilar <annalisa@unm.edu>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello!
> > > > >
> > > > > Sorry for being silly here, but I couldn't help but see that so
> > > > > far on
> > > > this thread, there have been appearances by:
> > > > >
> > > > > mike, Annalisa, Michael, Luisa, and Miguel!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal with a natural science as an
> > object that creates history. Ernst Boesch.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal with a natural science as an
> object that creates history. Ernst Boesch.
>
>
>


-- 
Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Department of Anthropology
880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
Brigham Young University
Provo, UT 84602
http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson