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[Xmca-l] Re: no primitive language?



I wrote out a section of an article by Franson Manjali exploring the *social* and the *cognitive* in Saussure’s understanding of language. It may add to this conversation on the lexical and the grammatical aspects of language. It is only one page I quoted but the article is fascinating exploring the themes of more and less arbitrary systems of language and its regularity.

Annalisa, the beginning of the article explores Saussure’s debt to the Vedic scholars of language. 


The article is published at [Texto! Volume XVll, number 3, (2012). I could add more if others are interested, or the linguists among us could answer Franson Manjali reading of the *social*

Larry






Sent from Windows Mail





From: Martin John Packer
Sent: ‎Saturday‎, ‎December‎ ‎27‎, ‎2014 ‎3‎:‎57‎ ‎AM
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity





David, I know you know more about this than I know....  but the debate today centers on the Pirahã, no? Do they have color terms? Do they have number terms? Do they have recursion?

Martin

On Dec 27, 2014, at 5:35 AM, David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com> wrote:

> Well, of course Carol's really right, Andy. We need to say what we mean by
> primitive. Does it mean that the language is historically young? In that
> case, the most primitive language is probably modern Hebrew. Does it mean
> that the language is grammatically simple? Which aspect of the grammar?
> 
> Let's take case, since this is Vygotsky's model for linguistic complexity
> in the Lectures. Annaluisa will tell you about Sanskrit's eight cases;
> modern Tamil has seven; Greek and Latin had about six. Tsez, in the
> mountains of the Caucasus, has 64 cases (mostly locatives).
> 
> English is probably the most primitive languages in the world from this
> point of view; it has a distinction between "I" and "me" and "he" and "him"
> but that's about it.
> 
> David Kellogg
> Hankuk University of Foreign Studies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 27 December 2014 at 19:14, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
> 
>> Thanks, Carol. :)
>> I am OK from here then.
>> Much appreciated.
>> Andy
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *Andy Blunden*
>> http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
>> 
>> 
>> Carol Macdonald wrote:
>> 
>>> Syntax, semantics. pragmatics, phonology, discourse orientation: they
>>> just give their own version of these aspects.
>>> 
>>> On 27 December 2014 at 12:10, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:
>>> ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>    Thanks, Carol.
>>>    Can those "key characteristics" be given in a few lines?
>>>    Andy
>>>    ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ------------
>>>    *Andy Blunden*
>>>    http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
>>>    <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
>>> 
>>> 
>>>    Carol Macdonald wrote:
>>> 
>>>        Andy
>>> 
>>>        It's true.  Languages all share key characteristics.
>>> 
>>>        Carol
>>> 
>>>        On 27 December 2014 at 12:02, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net
>>>        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
>>>        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>            I have heard, and I believe it to be the case, that there
>>>        is no
>>>            such thing as a "primitive language."
>>>            I am not talking about the "language" of children raised in
>>>            isolation, or the "home sign" of deaf children, I mean
>>>        among the
>>>            languages of actual historical peoples.
>>>            I would just appreciate that if this is wrong, could
>>>        someone on
>>>            this list who knows about this kind of thing disabuse me.
>>>            Otherwise I will assume this to be factual.
>>> 
>>>            Thanks
>>>            Andy
>>>            --            ------------------------------
>>> ------------------------------------------
>>>            *Andy Blunden*
>>>            http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
>>>        <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
>>>            <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>        --         Carol A  Macdonald Ph D (Edin)
>>>        Developmental psycholinguist
>>>        Academic, Researcher,  and Editor Honorary Research Fellow:
>>>        Department of Linguistics, Unisa
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Carol A  Macdonald Ph D (Edin)
>>> Developmental psycholinguist
>>> Academic, Researcher,  and Editor Honorary Research Fellow: Department of
>>> Linguistics, Unisa
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>

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