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*To*: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>*Subject*: [Xmca-l] Re: Maths and science in Russia*From*: Ed Wall <ewall@umich.edu>*Date*: Sun, 21 Dec 2014 18:13:18 -0600*In-reply-to*: <CABjfC8JrKw2FRuZmRpTm6qaai6diJypB=cPTB3VVJZ8eEvh=Qg@mail.gmail.com>*List-archive*: <https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca-l>*List-help*: <mailto:xmca-l-request@mailman.ucsd.edu?subject=help>*List-id*: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l.mailman.ucsd.edu>*List-post*: <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>*List-subscribe*: <https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca-l>, <mailto:xmca-l-request@mailman.ucsd.edu?subject=subscribe>*List-unsubscribe*: <https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca-l>, <mailto:xmca-l-request@mailman.ucsd.edu?subject=unsubscribe>*References*: <CABjfC8KQyGQiv=5pyRR6z8Jof0KroEdm03VwE43y_md0zzfN7Q@mail.gmail.com> <CAG1MBOH9B-yZVdu8N5BV157p4z9MpGxUsMQDtPrmgZDs2_Vyag@mail.gmail.com> <CABjfC8JUhGqkzh9hBLCwVvU_NV3c1yssVs77SNAZvMgZjpV9eA@mail.gmail.com> <626322EE-DC59-4C94-A4AD-5C54F6045589@umich.edu> <CABjfC8LxROkbW+FGwso3wxG2Q-B+KBwBmpvkbseYc88qZ=ELKQ@mail.gmail.com> <A35E4398-DC27-49C7-9953-83CEC7275D2D@umich.edu> <CABjfC8JrKw2FRuZmRpTm6qaai6diJypB=cPTB3VVJZ8eEvh=Qg@mail.gmail.com>*Reply-to*: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>*Sender*: <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>

Ulvi Actually, you might find the other volume in this series more useful for your question: Russian Mathematical Education: Programs and Practices (also edited by Karp. Ed On Dec 21, 2014, at 5:57 PM, Ulvi İçil wrote: > Thank you very much Ed. > > > 2014-12-22 1:53 GMT+02:00 Ed Wall <ewall@umich.edu>: > >> Ulvi >> >> Yes, Russia has and I suspect continues to be more successful >> that the US in 8th grade and that, I think, might call in question seeming >> US success in 4th grade (there are perhaps complicating factors). At least, >> a number of people think so which is, as I said before, one reason for >> recent reform efforts in the US. >> >> As regards the Russian mathematics curriculum, you might want to >> take a look at a 1980 4th grade Russian mathematics text >> >> ftp://math.stanford.edu/pub/papers/milgram/russian-grade-4-problems.pdf >> >> This is significantly beyond, in places, what is taught to US 4th graders >> and may, in part, speak to what happens by 8th grade. >> >> You might want to take a look at Russian Mathematics Education: History >> and World Significance (Schmittau has a chapter). >> >> Ed >> >> On Dec 21, 2014, at 5:09 PM, Ulvi İçil wrote: >> >>> Thanks Ed. >>> >>> The picture I attached earlier may have misled me. In the below link. >>> >>> You seem to be right, Russia does not seem to be particularly successful. >>> >>> But according to this >>> >>> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trends_in_International_Mathematics_and_Science_Study >>> . >>> >>> Countries' scores with flags. >>> >>> Russia seems still to be successful than US at TIMSS2011 for eight grade. >>> >>> On the other hand, I suppose that there is a considerable deterioration, >>> decentralization and processes alike in Russia after 1990. >>> >>> About Piaget dominance in US and England; >>> >>> can it be thought that Piaget's dominance is hindering math curriculum to >>> be a developed one because it does not take into account early >> development >>> of abstract thinking in children? >>> >>> My question about Russia's actual math curriculum is still open. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> 2014-12-22 0:48 GMT+02:00 Ed Wall <ewall@umich.edu>: >>> >>>> Ulvi >>>> >>>> According to the 2015 TIMSS, the average score of fourth graders in >>>> the US is 541 where that of England and the Russian Federation is 542. I >>>> know that, in general, the mathematics curriculum in the US and England >> has >>>> nothing much to do with Vygotsky (and yet a lot to do with Piaget). A >>>> number of mathematics educators think that the math curriculum in the >> early >>>> grades in the US is not particularly successful (hat is one of the >> reasons >>>> behind some recent reform efforts in the US). Why do you think, given >> these >>>> average scores (and, of course, there are questions about TIMSS), the >>>> curriculum in Russia is "quite successful?" >>>> >>>> Ed Wall >>>> On Dec 21, 2014, at 4:15 PM, Ulvi İçil wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thanks Huw. >>>>> Yes, I know in Davydov it is called learning activity but my question >> was >>>>> aimed at the curriculum situation in Russia, current math curriculum >>>>> applied in Russia's primary schools? >>>>> What is this curriculum? Is it the one proposed by Davydov or bearing >>>>> another name? >>>>> And to put it in terms of Vygotsky, is the curriculum currently >> applied, >>>>> and which seems to be quite successful, has anything to do with >>>> Vygotskian >>>>> theory in Russia and in other countries where maths seems to be a >>>>> successful discipline in primary years. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Ulvi >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2014-12-22 0:01 GMT+02:00 Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>: >>>>> >>>>>> Ulvi, >>>>>> >>>>>> The essential 'method' is to facilitate students' own experimentation >>>> with >>>>>> methods. This is called learning activity. >>>>>> >>>>>> Huw >>>>>> >>>>>> On 21 December 2014 at 12:15, Ulvi İçil <ulvi.icil@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I know there are some works comparing Russia (Davydov's curriculum) >> and >>>>>> US, >>>>>>> and even some works done in US with an application of Davydov's, e.g. >>>> by >>>>>>> Schmittau. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I would like to know, not in detail, but just in general, which main >>>>>>> factors lie behind this success in Russia, it is Davydov, or Zarkov >> or >>>>>> any >>>>>>> other scholar's method. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks in advance, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ulvi >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> >>

**Follow-Ups**:**[Xmca-l] Re: Maths and science in Russia***From:*Ulvi İçil <ulvi.icil@gmail.com>

**References**:**[Xmca-l] Maths and science in Russia***From:*Ulvi İçil <ulvi.icil@gmail.com>

**[Xmca-l] Re: Maths and science in Russia***From:*Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>

**[Xmca-l] Re: Maths and science in Russia***From:*Ulvi İçil <ulvi.icil@gmail.com>

**[Xmca-l] Re: Maths and science in Russia***From:*Ed Wall <ewall@umich.edu>

**[Xmca-l] Re: Maths and science in Russia***From:*Ulvi İçil <ulvi.icil@gmail.com>

**[Xmca-l] Re: Maths and science in Russia***From:*Ed Wall <ewall@umich.edu>

**[Xmca-l] Re: Maths and science in Russia***From:*Ulvi İçil <ulvi.icil@gmail.com>

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