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[Xmca-l] Re: Time, Imagination, Metaphor

Francine, Henry
Thanks for these replies.
THIS opens up a vast *field*
One quick question. The term "phenomenologist or phenomenology may be a
term that has many meanings.
Francine, when you write:

If my semiotic system does not orient me to see a wall in front of me, I
will still walk into a wall. If my semiotics do not allow for the
perception that a car is coming at me, and I do not move Will still get hit
by the car"
I understand that phenomenology says to look *at* the *things* themselves.
in other words, look at "walking into the wall" look at "swerving to avoid
the wall"  look at "the way we use "semiotic systems".  look at the way "we
abstract" from the things themselves.

Husserl's phenomenology which is Kantian is NOT phenomenology. I understand
phenomenology as sharing and overlapping and existing "within" notions such
as Kris "Third Space" as a thing itself that is both forming AND formed as
phenomenologically existent..
For me the "border" that is interesting in phenomenology is between
Heidegger or Sartre who privilege subjective phenomena and the
hermeneutical and embodied [carnal]  approaches of intersubjective
Kris' exploration of the hybrid testimonio AS PERFORMED within subjective
[autobiography] AND intersubjective [radically reciprocal dialogue] and
form[ing] a hybrid "space" [a third space] which becomes "community" can be
seen as a performance of "gap-filling' which is a semiotic and a
phenomenological and an existential action [and activity] . When
this hybrid third space becomes "familiar" [like family] a new TYPE or
GENRE of "trust" develops from which "I" and "we" can move "out" or "in" to
the wider world of phenomenologically existent "things" themselves
[including semiological things]

I am a novice in my understanding of phenomenology, but it is a
historically situated TYPE of knowing [and seeing and action] as
emphasizing the things themselves. What gets high-lighted and focused "on"
may be different but does not exclude the things I have mentioned as the
things placed "in front" of our "selves"

To summarize, Kris' "third space" as imaginal  "place" AND an actual
"place" BOTH form[ing] AND formed is a hybrid space/place.

David Kellogg's exploration of grammatical metaphor [and its place in
trans-versals "of" the subjective/intersubjective  performance and
trans-versals "of" the fact/'fiction performance are phenomena that can be
looked "at" from both "within" or without" . From within the form[ing] or
from without "as" the sedimented already form[ed].. David K is now "in" my
head [or "in" my body] with grammatical metaphor calling me to pay

What Kris adds is the centrality of the "third space' is a moral virtue
[cosmopolitanism] with the CALL for being "obligated" to respond to our
humanness. This connects with Francine's call for cultural synergy

On Sat, Dec 20, 2014 at 3:08 AM, larry smolucha <lsmolucha@hotmail.com>

> Message from Francine:
> Metaphysics is an old term for philosophy. Metaphysics includes the study
> of ontology,
> cosmology and epistemology.  Our discussions have been epistemological,
> specifically
> how  different cultures understand time and space. We have not gotten into
> an
> ontological discussion (yet) about the 'real' nature of time and space.
> Some people use the term metaphysics to refer to a type of spiritual
> metaphysics.
> The practice of mind over matter. In my previous post, I used the examples
> of walking into
> a wall or in front of a car, in denial of their existence. The
> probabilities are not in your
> favor. But I did run out in front of a speeding car once, to snatch up my
> toddler, and
> 'miraculously' the driver was able to stop and did not hit me (as I held
> my son in my arms
> protecting his head expecting we would be thrown to the ground).
> Similarly, in
> Dancing with Wolves, when Kevin Costner rides back and forth past the
> Confederate lines
> who are shooting at him - he is defying the odds. Physics has become a
> probabilistic science that does not rule out the possibility that if you
> drop a glass of water it might fall upward,
> but the probabilities of that happening are astronomical.
> > From: annalisa@unm.edu
> > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
> > Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2014 05:06:48 +0000
> > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Time, Imagination, Metaphor
> >
> > Hello Francine (and Larry),
> >
> > Yes! Let's not forget perception and imagination!
> >
> > And let me second subjective perspectives and bibliographic references!
> >
> > [If anyone has any to add to the ABC that come to mind, please forward
> them to me!  TQ]
> >
> > I fully enjoy the noodle into pasta example. Are you saying that time is
> metaphysical? Would space be metaphysical too?
> >
> > Robert brought up a perfect example of the Hopi's view of time and the
> Guugu Yimithirr of Australia and their method of employing cardinal
> directions to orient themselves in space.
> > http://xmca.ucsd.edu/yarns/15874?keywords=#52113
> >
> > That example also reminded me of the Greek Poet Simonides of Ceos and
> the Memory Palace... see the Extreme Memory Tournament
> >
> http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/05/19/remembering-as-an-extreme-sport/
> > and the book that tells you how to remember everything:
> >
> http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C03E3DF1E3FF93BA35750C0A9679D8B63
> >
> > Also Francine, when you say:
> > > The 'Natural' Science that arises from European culture begins as
> mechanical physics and alchemy in which machines have parts and chemicals
> have elements. It has evolved into the study of energy, and systems theory.
> >
> > I wanted to say, don't forget to include astrology with alchemy and
> mechanical physics!  :) (Which is an ancient systems theory) and then
> becomes astronomy, and this has certainly altered our sense of both time
> and space by light years!  :)
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Annalisa
> >