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[Xmca-l] Re: Chomsky, Vygotsky, and phenomenology



Reading the response by ANL and ARL it comes back to the same damn argument about the learning paradox, which of course doubles back to the conversation on imagination (I keeps thinking my last realization will be that we were always just having a single conversation).  Fodor seems to be taking Chomsky's point that you can't recognize a word meaning unless that word meaning already existed.  I think that is central to his second critique that children can't understand words different than adults because then how would they understand each other - but implicit in this is what then suggests that children ever will become adults.  It is really, really hard to argue with when working from a closed logical system - the reason I think Fodor says Vygotsky makes a priori assumption.  But then the Leontiev's fall to their knees, hands stretched to the heaven just as Vygotsky, Dewey, Piaget, Bateson and so many others have done and say, your logic is unassailable but it does not explain humanity - in the end it is little more than clever idiocy (in the Deweyan sense).  We are going through exactly the same thing I think once again with all the discussions about learning analytics and Big Data.  In the end it is unassailable and it explains nothing.

Michael
________________________________________
From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] on behalf of mike cole [mcole@ucsd.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2014 10:31 AM
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Chomsky, Vygotsky, and phenomenology

​et al--

Attached is a paper by ANL and ARL on Fodor. Relevant to the chomsky/LSV
discussion​


There is material on this subject aplenty on the topic at lchc.ucsd.edu  if
you google chomsky vygotsky luria leontiev as key words.

IN GENERAL, a quick search of xmca through the lchc google search is a
quick way to learn about prior discussions of current topics.

mike



On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 6:36 AM, Carol Macdonald <carolmacdon@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Do you think Chomsky knows he is? Howard Gardner is a very generous fellow.
>
> On 17 December 2014 at 16:28, Martin John Packer <mpacker@uniandes.edu.co>
> wrote:
> >
> > oh, I just read your second paragraph...
> >
> > Howard Gardner lists Noam Chomsky as one of the "founders of cognitive
> > science," along with Jerome Bruner, John McCarthy, George Miller, and
> Allen
> > Newell (1985, p. 23).
> >
> > Gardner, H. (1985). The mind's new science: A history of the cognitive
> > revolution. New York: Basic Books.
> >
> > Martin
> >
> > On Dec 17, 2014, at 8:54 AM, Carol Macdonald <carolmacdon@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Well yes, and as linguistic and psychology student I was very proud of
> > him
> > > for his review, it made me laugh and laugh.  But Chomsky never read
> > Piaget
> > > or Vygotsky.  He would have been interested in Vygotsky's
> interpretation
> > of
> > > Behaviousrism.
> > >
> > > As to cognitive psychology - well I suppose we should be pleased, but
> > > Chomsky had no direct hand in that.
> > >
> > > Carol.
> > >
> > > On 17 December 2014 at 14:49, Martin John Packer <
> > mpacker@uniandes.edu.co>
> > > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Chomsky knew enough about psychology to write a devastating review of
> B.
> > >> F. Skinner's book 'Verbal behavior,' which still makes very
> interesting
> > >> reading. And Chomsky's own book 'Syntactic Structures' was one of the
> > key
> > >> components in the emergence of cognitive psychology in the late 1950s,
> > as
> > >> Howard Gardner's book makes clear.
> > >>
> > >> Martin
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > > --
> > > Carol A  Macdonald Ph D (Edin)
> > > Developmental psycholinguist
> > > Academic, Researcher,  and Editor
> > > Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Carol A  Macdonald Ph D (Edin)
> Developmental psycholinguist
> Academic, Researcher,  and Editor
> Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa
>


--
It is the dilemma of psychology to deal with a natural science with an
object that creates history. Ernst Boesch.