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[Xmca-l] Re: Genetics, internalization, biology, and Vygotsky



Thank you Martin,

It seems as though I was reading LSV through the my chomskyian lens.


Dr. Paul C. Mocombe
President
The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc.
www.mocombeian.com 
www.readingroomcurriculum.com 
www.paulcmocombe.info 

<div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: Martin John Packer <mpacker@uniandes.edu.co> </div><div>Date:12/16/2014  12:26 PM  (GMT-05:00) </div><div>To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> </div><div>Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Genetics, internalization, biology, and Vygotsky </div><div>
</div>Hi Paul,

In my reading, when LSV wrote of internalization he distinguished a psychological and a physiological component. He wrote of speech becoming "internal psychologically" when it moves from being social to being individual. That is, talk with other people becomes talk to oneself, out loud. Then, he wrote of speech subsequently becoming "internal physiologically" when this talk to oneself becomes "inner speech" - that is to say, when only I can hear myself speaking. That aspect of internalization requires neurological changes that we still don't fully understand: presumably the brain region that handles speech production becomes capable of direct communication with the brain region that handles speech perception. But I don't think LSV considered internalization to involve genetic changes, nor to depend on factors such as melanin.

Martin

On Dec 16, 2014, at 11:00 AM, Dr. Paul C. Mocombe <pmocombe@mocombeian.com> wrote:

> I want to be fair to Dr. Supplice...i think his argument is, deductively speaking, if you look at black africa historically all of their civilizations have been theocratic...is it biology/Dna/chemical or historical?  I am trying to understand his statements within Vygotskyian processes.  When Vygotsky speaks of internalization is this the type of biological factors, I.e., dna, chemical, etc. he is speaking about? I am not interested in the validity of dr. Supplice ' s statements.  Trust me, had dr. Supplice been white and non-haitian I would probably be screaming racism.  Albeit in haiti given his mix ancestry he is considered white.
> 
> 
> Dr. Paul C. Mocombe
> President
> The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc.
> www.mocombeian.com 
> www.readingroomcurriculum.com 
> www.paulcmocombe.info 
> 
> <div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: Carol Macdonald <carolmacdon@gmail.com> </div><div>Date:12/16/2014  8:47 AM  (GMT-05:00) </div><div>To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> </div><div>Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Genetics, internalization, biology, and Vygotsky </div><div>
> </div>Hello
> 
> I am truli horrified.  I know Haitian people were not subject to the force
> of Christian evangelism in the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries, and therefore
> their relationship to their traditional of culture and worship are more
> visible than in other situations.
> 
> But I really feel that you can't tar the whole of Africa with the same
> brush.  I am an African, and know a great deal about the peoples of
> Southern Africa, and really what you are suggesting makes no sense at all.
> 
> The closest I might come is to talk about the ZCC, the Zionist Church,
> which combines elements of traditional beliefs and practices with Christian
> elements.  What counts as occult here is the belief that ancestors can help
> or hinder as while we live; we have to pay homage to them.
> 
> Humanity is profoundly important - acceptance and inclusion of people - an
> acceptance of differences as well as wanting not to stand our.
> 
> I am sorry but I just get get my head around what Paul is saying. I have to
> say this sounds suspicious. I cannot see how I could contribute in any
> other way to this discussion.
> 
> I really don't think I need melatonin to be African.
> 
> Carol
> 
> On 16 December 2014 at 12:37, Dr. Paul C. Mocombe <pmocombe@mocombeian.com>
> wrote:
>> 
>> I have an important question for vygotsky scholars...According to the
>> haitian sociologist, Daniel Supplice, as people of African descent, whose
>> societies and governments have been based on theocracy prior to their
>> contacts with Europeans, democracy is not for haitians.  He argues that as
>> haitians and people of african descent, we have to reconsider how we
>> constitute our societies, and stop adopting the ideologies and practices of
>> whites, which are aligned with their biology and experiences of the world.
>> 
>> This debate is not new.  There is an argument in afrocentric circles,
>> which highlight the impact that melanin has in making people of color
>> religious and determining their worldview.  So that in the internalization
>> of social processes by blacks melanin is a determing factor in constituting
>> their worldview.  Is this the sought of biological/genetic factor that
>> Vygotsky scholars are taking into account when they speak of the
>> internalization process?
>> 
>> I am aware of the fact that alcohol and certain high blood pressure
>> medications adversely affect people of african descent because of melanin.
>> Should we look at the internalization of social processes along the same
>> lines as the ingestion of medicine and alcohol?  Is this Vygotskyian or
>> more in line with Kantian form of understanding and sensibilities as it
>> applies to people of african descent?
>> 
>> Dr. Paul C. Mocombe
>> President
>> The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc.
>> www.mocombeian.com
>> www.readingroomcurriculum.com
>> www.paulcmocombe.info
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Carol A  Macdonald Ph D (Edin)
> Developmental psycholinguist
> Academic, Researcher,  and Editor
> Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa
>