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[Xmca-l] Re: Imagination

Esteemed discussants,

Having finished the paper, and considering Mike's comments, I might suggest that metaphorical reasoning is an essential engine to imagination, and I wonder if I say that because impressions taken of the perceived object as it presents itself to me (the Big Dipper) is the identical to taking the object as a product of seeing-as (a star constellation as a Big Dipper), is the identical to taking the object to represent something else entirely (such as Wittgenstein's triangle as a mountain, as an arrow, etc., or a flag to represent a nation).

In other words, that imagination begins as a perceptual process which then develops into metaphorical reasoning and perhaps continues on to more complex forms of imagining and conceptual renderings. There is definitely a dynamic relationship to perception and imagination.

If metaphor isn't THE essential engine, it must serve as a priming process (arising from embodied experience in the world), possibly in the same way the gesture manifests into the word and its meaning. At least that's how I see it at the moment...even though I'm only looking at pixels on my screen as I write this...

(Thinking out loud, but I hope not too loud).

Kind regards,


From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf of mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu>
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2014 2:02 PM
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Imagination

Here are some questions I have after reading Strawson and Williams.

Kant et al (including Russian developmentalists whose work i am trying to
mine for empirical
strategies and already-accumulated results) speak of productive
imagination. The Russians write that productive imagination develops.

At first I thought that the use of productive implies that there must be a
kind of ​imagination called UNproductive imagination. But I learned that
instead the idea of RE-productive imagination appears and is linked to

So, it seems that imagination is an ineluctable part of anticipation and
Imagine that!

On Sat, Dec 13, 2014 at 12:16 PM, HENRY SHONERD <hshonerd@gmail.com> wrote:
> Strawson provides a long view historically on imagination (starting with
> Hume and Kant), Williams a more contemporaneous look, and provides a space
> for imagination not afforded by the socio-cultural as fixed. This, coupled
> with Pelaprat and Cole on Gap/Imagination, gives me a ground to take part
> in the thread on imagination. Of course, I start with preconceptions: Vera
> on creative collaboration and the cognitive grammarian Langacker on
> symbolic assemblies in discourse and cognitive domains, particularly the
> temporal. Everyday discourse, it seems to me, is full of imagination and
> creativity. I am terribly interested in two aspects of temporality:
> sequence and rhythm (including tempo and rhythmic structure), which I think
> must both figure in imagination and creativity, for both individual and
> distributed construals of cognition and feeling.
> Henry
> > On Dec 13, 2014, at 12:01 PM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Henry, Mike, and others interested in this topic.
> >
> > I too see the affinities with notions of the third *space* and the
> analogy
> > to *gap-filling*
> > I am on holiday so limited access to internet.
> > However, I wanted to mention Raymond Williams and his notion of
> "structures
> > of feeling" that David K references. This notion is explored under the
> > notion of historical *styles* that exist as a *set* of modalities that
> hang
> > together.  This notion suggests there is a form of knowing that is
> forming
> > but has not yet formed [but can be "felt" [perceived??] if we think
> > imaginatively.  Raymond explores the imaginal as *style*
> > Larry
> > On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 4:38 PM, HENRY SHONERD <hshonerd@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Mike and Larry,
> >> I promise to read your profer, but just want to say how jazzed up I am
> now
> >> about this thread. My mind has been going wild, the mind as Larry
> construes
> >> it. I ended up just now with a triad, actually various triads, finally
> >> found my old friend Serpinski. Part now of my notebooks of the mind, as
> >> Vera would construe it. I’ll be back! Gap adentro, luega pa’ fuera.
> >> Fractally yours,
> >> Henry
> >>
> >>> On Dec 12, 2014, at 5:09 PM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> For those interested in the imagination thread, attached are two
> articles
> >>> by philosophers who have worried about the issue.
> >>>
> >>> My current interest stems from the work of CHAT theorists like
> >> Zaporozhets
> >>> and his students who studied the development of imagination in a manner
> >>> that, it turns out, goes back to Kant's notion of productive
> >> imagination. I
> >>> am not advocating going back to Kant, and have no intention of doing
> so.
> >>> But these ideas seem worth pursuing as explicated in the attached
> texts.
> >>>
> >>> Through reading the Russians and then these philosophers, I came upon
> the
> >>> idea that perception and imagination are very closely linked at several
> >>> levels of analysis. This is what, in our naivete, Ettienne and I argued
> >> in
> >>> our paper on imagination sent around earlier as a means of access to
> the
> >>> work of the blind-deaf psychologist, Alexander Suvorov. Moreover, such
> >>> views emphasize the future orientation of the perception/imagination
> >>> process. I believe that these views have direct relevance to Kris's
> paper
> >>> to be found on the KrisRRQ thread, and also speak to concerns about the
> >>> role of different forms of symbolic play in development.
> >>>
> >>> So here are the papers on the imagination thread. Perhaps they will
> prove
> >>> useful for those interested.
> >>> mike
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal with a natural science with an
> >>> object that creates history. Ernst Boesch.
> >>> <Imagination and Perception by P.F. Strawson.pdf>
> >>
> >>
> >>

It is the dilemma of psychology to deal with a natural science with an
object that creates history. Ernst Boesch.