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*To*: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>*Subject*: [Xmca-l] Re: grosholz*From*: mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu>*Date*: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 21:43:28 -0800*In-reply-to*: <58C8C12F-3E03-4057-829A-08E3F9241A07@gmail.com>*List-archive*: <https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca-l>*List-help*: <mailto:xmca-l-request@mailman.ucsd.edu?subject=help>*List-id*: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l.mailman.ucsd.edu>*List-post*: <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>*List-subscribe*: <https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca-l>, <mailto:xmca-l-request@mailman.ucsd.edu?subject=subscribe>*List-unsubscribe*: <https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca-l>, <mailto:xmca-l-request@mailman.ucsd.edu?subject=unsubscribe>*References*: <000001cffc74$88dfd4d0$9a9f7e70$@edu> <FF34EDF0-273B-4FCE-8AD2-8F416119B5CE@umich.edu> <58C8C12F-3E03-4057-829A-08E3F9241A07@gmail.com>*Reply-to*: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>*Sender*: <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>

Still, your experience allows you to richly interpret what is involved, cognitively, socially, and affectively, Henry. Very interesting. mike On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 6:17 PM, HENRY SHONERD <hshonerd@gmail.com> wrote: > I just finished the Grosholz article (“Phil of Math & Phil of History”). > > I was thinking about conjectures regarding things that have not been > proven) and discoveries of things that have may not even been imagined. > Fermat’s theorem was a conjecture until Wylie proved it. I would contrast > Wylie’s proof with the year of “pure math” I did at U of Texas at Austin in > the program set up by E.T. Moore. I tried very hard to prove that such a > thing as a Cantor set existed. I was not able to beat another student in > the program to the punch, in fact made a fool of myself in front of a class > thinking I DID have a proof when I didn’t. But that failure, and the > struggle that went into it, made it possible for me to understand the other > guy’s proof. So, on that occasion, he was better at math than me. But by > the time the two of us worked on the problem it was neither a conjecture, > nor a discovery. Somebody else had done it for the first time. Our job was > not trivial, to trace the steps to the proof, but it was very different > from what Wylie did. Cantor’s story, I think, ups the ante. The set in > question may have been only a conjecture to Cantor at the time. His ideas > on transfinite numbers were ridiculed and he was hounded much like Vygotsky > by the cogniscenti at the time. In fact the It was a discovery of that set > that has become the foundations of fractal mathematics (which I think is > worth talking about in this thread). In analogous fashion, Vygotsky’s work > was epic in analogous fashion and equally tragic. I sort of see us here > today, with our crisis, working with LSV’s conjectures, finding the > solution to the problems. I think it’s worth adding these kinds of > narratives to the history of math and the history of philosophy, as > Grosholz has construed it. And maybe it’s sort of what she was getting at > on page 16: > “…[T]his is the logical texture of everyday life, where the unforeseen > constantly puts to the test our intellectual and moral resources, and where > our ability to rise to the occasion must always remain in question: the > insight of tragedy is that anyone can be destroyed by some unfortunate > combination of events and a lapse in fortitude or sympathy. > Clearly my little piece of it amounts to very little. Still... > Henry > > > > > On Nov 9, 2014, at 5:05 PM, Ed Wall <ewall@umich.edu> wrote: > > > > Thanks > > > > Yes, Wiles is a nice example of doing mathematics within a historical > dimension.One part of the article bothered me when the author averred that > Fermat would need to pick up the centuries between. Interestingly that is > not what a student of mathematics who was born today would 'need' to do to > enter the conversation. > > > > I was listening to a presentation, you might say, on the 'true but > unprovable' (in the sense of Godel) by John Conway and he kept saying "I > don't know if this is true, but …"; "I don't have a proof, but …" It was a > serious mathematical presentation. > > > > Ed Wall > > > > On Nov 9, 2014, at 5:26 PM, Vera John-Steiner wrote: > > > >> Hi, > >> > >> I am forwarding an article by a philosopher of mathematics who > addresses issues of narrative and logic as well as the role of history > >> > >> in mathematics. Some of the article requires a familiarity with > concepts in the field which are above my head, nevertheless it was a > valuable > >> > >> piece in the context of the current thread. > >> > >> Vera > >> > >> > >> > >> From: reuben hersh [mailto:rhersh@gmail.com] > >> Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 7:44 AM > >> To: Vera John-Steiner > >> Subject: grosholz > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> <Grosholz_Maths & History.pdf> > > > > > > -- It is the dilemma of psychology to deal with a natural science with an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch.

**References**:**[Xmca-l] FW: grosholz***From:*Vera John-Steiner <vygotsky@unm.edu>

**[Xmca-l] Re: FW: grosholz***From:*Ed Wall <ewall@umich.edu>

**[Xmca-l] Re: grosholz***From:*HENRY SHONERD <hshonerd@gmail.com>

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