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[Xmca-l] Re: L2


SCT in Language Learning doesn't even get to the Inner Speech area as far
as I know.  That would be LSV pure and uadulterated. It seems to me to
swallow the shallowly touted "definitions" that general instructions also
uses. I think your students might like a bit of exposition on the
development of Inner Speech.

I once had to restrained when a literacy student said that Vygotsky
invented group work!! These people sometimes quote tertiary sources with
abandon.  We were/are such purists in Psych in Education that students had
to read the primary sources.

Martin, I know what you said - I was pulling your chain on claiming
familiarity with the field on the basis of abstracts. I know you will have
headed for the library once the doors opened. Sorry mate.


On 3 November 2014 16:20, Martin John Packer <mpacker@uniandes.edu.co>

> To me, one important question would be what SCT is able to tell us about
> instruction in L2, over and above instruction in general.
> Carol, I think I explained that this weekend I have had online access to
> no more than abstracts, except for two chapters that I already had on hand,
> and which I was referring to. However, if an article contains a bright new
> idea it really ought to be in the abstract, no?
> Martin
> On Nov 3, 2014, at 8:40 AM, Carol Macdonald <carolmacdon@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Martin
> >
> > You paint with a broad brush here: ELL is a fast growing field today,
> > because "Biligual Education" has a wide range of situations/niches which
> > other people have said here. (It nearly has encyclapedia status).  I do
> L1
> > and L2 work here in Southern Africa (Grades 1-7) and one of very few
> > privileged enough to be able to do it.  Even in such similar cultures as
> > Namibia and South Africa there are very different perceptions about
> English
> > as Second Language and ways of talking about it.
> >
> > I think you must look at what you said - who is going to deliver their
> > bright new idea in an abstract? You have to surmise that they do, because
> > their concepts (small c) are in place. (We fail people here who only
> quote
> > abstracts...).  So head to the hardcopy, comrade brother.
> >
> > Having delivered my sermon, I find the SCT of ESL very disappointing. It
> > seems like they are just pinning new labels on things they already knew.
> > But if we have a fellow practitioner among us, please do speak up. I
> > remember when I first started working on CHAT in language education in
> the
> > late eighties, I felt I was pinning labels.
> >
> > Carol
> >
> > On 3 November 2014 13:50, Martin John Packer <mpacker@uniandes.edu.co>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi David,
> >>
> >> I have to teach a class on second language learning this week in my
> course
> >> in Psychology of Language, so I've turned to Lantolf. My university
> library
> >> webpage has been down for maintenance this weekend so I've had limited
> >> access to his writing, but what I have been able to read has confused
> me.
> >> In a couple of articles I find reasonable summaries of LSV's ideas, but
> >> then Lantolf doesn't get around to applying these ideas to L2! Looking
> at
> >> abstracts in Google Scholar it seems that he's proposing that (1) L2 is
> >> learned in the ZPD (what isn't?), (2) L2 is a mediator (what isn't?),
> and
> >> (3) private speech occurs in L2 (okay, that could be interesting). I was
> >> expecting him to attribute some role to L2 in the higher functions, or
> to
> >> suggest that L2 mediates in a specific way, or...
> >>
> >> What am I missing?
> >>
> >> Plus, I have a growing suspicion that most L2 research is conducted on
> >> people willingly studying a foreign language in the classroom. Not
> much, or
> >> nothing, on people who are forced to abandon their mother tongue because
> >> they live somewhere where school, and/or work, is available only if they
> >> speak a dominant language. I'm hoping you'll tell me I'm wrong about
> this!
> >>
> >> Martin
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Carol A  Macdonald Ph D (Edin)
> > Developmental psycholinguist
> > Academic, Researcher,  and Editor
> > Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa

Carol A  Macdonald Ph D (Edin)
Developmental psycholinguist
Academic, Researcher,  and Editor
Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa