Mike, Martin.... I'm afraid I don't have the Russian text of the Leontiev article. I just read the one that Andy send round, from the JREEP. (I also read his reply to Leontiev, and I can only say that he has a lot more patience with this sort of thing than I do--I really couldn't get past the part about "fatalistic determinism".) Martin expressed interest in the other lectures in the series, which we are translating. I enclose two--first of all the Russian and rough English translation of the one whose summary I sent round (Lecture Five on Psychological Devleopment). But secondly the Russian and rough English translation of his final lecture on neurological development, along with the summarizing endnote I wrote. Notice that Vygotsky says that psychology can be thought of as the function of the nervous system! David Kellogg Hankuk University of Foreign Studies (MIke--many thanks for bearding the Boesch quote for me!) dk On 18 October 2014 09:22, mike cole <email@example.com> wrote: > David-- Since you have the Russian text, could you send a note with the > Russian for this passage?: > > > *Among these conditions, he encounters the fact of language, which is the > medium of the “spiritual relations” established with it and constitutes an > essential condition for the development of his social and intellectual > consciousness. * > > Its as if culture is being turned into spirit and then called idealism and > used as a very material hammer. > > mike > > On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 4:13 PM, Martin John Packer <firstname.lastname@example.org >> wrote: > >> Thanks for the clarification, Huw. >> >> I am pointing out that in his texts LSV writes of consciousness prior to >> language (that is, in the preverbal infant), and of changes in >> consciousness when the child starts to speak. Presumably he would not have >> written such things if he believed that language is a necessary condition >> (ontogenetically) for consciousness. If ANL attributed such a view to LSV, >> he was incorrect, it seems to me. >> >> Martin >> >> On Oct 17, 2014, at 5:24 PM, Huw Lloyd <email@example.com> wrote: >> >> > The ANL's translation was: >> > >> > "The child, therefore, appears before us primarily as a subject of the >> > mate- rial process of life. In the process of his development, he >> > encounters ready- made, historically established conditions that >> determine >> > his existence as a social being. Among these conditions, he encounters >> the >> > fact of language, which is the medium of the “spiritual relations” >> > established with it and con- stitutes an essential condition for the >> > development of his social and intellec- tual consciousness. Thus, >> > Vygotsky’s proposition that consciousness is a product of the child’s >> > verbal communication under conditions of his activity and in relation to >> > the material reality that surrounds him must be turned around: the >> > consciousness of a child is a product of his human activity in relation >> to >> > objective reality, taking place *under conditions of language* and under >> > conditions of verbal communication." >> > >> > You (Martin) wrote: >> > >> >> I see a difference, Huw. I just don't see the difference that the >> >> difference makes. And ANL cannot be correct: for one thing, in various >> >> texts LSV writes about the character of consciousness in preverbal >> >> children, and of how consciousness is transformed by the acquisition of >> >> language. This would hardly be possible if language were a necessary >> >> condition for consciousness. >> > >> > >> > So you're saying: That transformation of consciousness would not be >> > possible if language were a necessary condition for consciousness. >> > >> > ANL is asserting that LSV is not being coherent in this paper with >> respect >> > to materialist formulations. He is saying that it is weak. He is also >> > saying that the word is not the source of consciousness. So what are >> > saying that ANL cannot be right about? >> > >> > Best, >> > Huw >> >> >> > > > -- > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal with a natural science with an > object that creates history. Ernst Boesch.
Lecture Five on Psychological Development.docx
Description: MS-Word 2007 document
Lecture Seven on Neurological Development.docx
Description: MS-Word 2007 document
Summarizing Endnote 7.doc
Description: MS-Word document