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[Xmca-l] Re: units of analysis? LSV versus ANL

On 17 October 2014 19:43, Martin John Packer <mpacker@uniandes.edu.co>

> Mike,
> Am I reading correctly this extract that you have highlighted ?  ANL says
> that LSV saw verbal communication occurring under conditions of activity,
> whereas ANL himself proposes that activity occurs under conditions of
> language and communication. Put this way, both formulations seem incorrect.
> First, speech is a form of activity; second, (nonverbal) activity can
> circumscribe speech, and speech can circumscribe activity. That is to say,
> there is a relation of mutuality between the two.

> What am I missing?

That ANL is using activity in a special sense and not simply as a synonym
for behaviour.  Hence "speech is a form of activity" does not fit in this
sense.  You have to think about what activity means here to make sense of
the difference.  ANL says that experience is a 2nd order psychological fact
(because the feeling-experience arising out of activity is contingent upon

The half-paragraph that Mike repeats is also one that I highlighted in my
read-through.  One has to think logically to see the difference.
Specifically, ANL is pointing to drivers and necessary conditions.  He is
saying that LSV considers language-ing the driver for consciousness,
whereas ANL points to activity.  This to my reading and thinking is
justifiably presented as a decisive difference.  It is the same as stating
that the deed precedes the word, and that the genetic precursor is
different to products derived from it.

Is it me, or there a league of clumsy posting being formed to promote more


> Martin
> On Oct 17, 2014, at 12:58 PM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
> > Thus, Vygotsky’s proposition that consciousness is a product of the
> child’s
> > verbal communication under conditions of his activity and in relation to
> > the material reality that surrounds him must be turned around: the
> > consciousness of a child is a product of his human activity in relation
> to
> > objective reality, taking place under conditions of language and under
> > conditions of verbal communication.