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[Xmca-l] Re: Foucault



Hi Henry,
Have you written of your '60's experiences anywhere?
If not you might consider it.
RL

On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 2:37 PM, Henry G. Shonerd III <hshonerd@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Mike,,
> A little historical ontology of myself. I was in Berkeley and Cuba with
> the Weathermen in the 60s when we were thinking in terms of a critique of
> not just A culture, but CULTURE: Che, revolution. Middle class white kids
> mostly, we even thought we might be willing to die to make a better world,
> like Che. Mostly we hurt each other's feelings trying to decide whose
> consciousness was highest. It's embarrassing to talk about it. Now I'm a
> retired education prof working as a sub in two great charter schools in
> Albuquerque, breaking good. Reading the XMA/XMCA dialog, I find much better
> grounding than consciousness raising sessions of the 60s, and I find
> Bloch's optimism (See Andy's website) warranted. Like the song goes: I'm
> still willin'. I have been scrambling to catch up on the thinking of
> "academic" giants as I read your posts, convinced you wouldn't post them if
> you didn't think they were important for this dialog. In other words I
> trust this dialog as it looks back. I understand Mike's problem with
> posting the Amy and Jed talk, though I think it is helpful that we have
> taken on the messiness of the moment. It's looking forward, the Novum,
> where I find my optimism. I don't think it's crazy to think that CHAT can
> be "popularized",  can be part of changing popular narratives. I love
> Vygotsky because he worked so feverishly, with others, to make that happen,
> for children. It seems to me that the reason Amy and Jed are important for
> this dialog is because schools ARE the key to changing the narrative. Or so
> I think and feel. And getting real dialog into the schools, not test prep,
> is what will change everything. That's the concept I think is worth aiming
> for. Again, so I think and feel.
> Henry
>
> On Sep 18, 2014, at 11:15 AM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for the recap, Martin. Then we got to Phillip who talked about
> > theorizing and autobiography as part of the Foucault thread. Is the move
> > from ourselveS to ourselF important?
> >
> > With the critique of culture issue, it seems that the sense of A culture
> as
> > AN historically formation of human lifeways and Culture, as the medium of
> > all forms of human life, are getting conflated in the discussion. The
> > project of criticizing various values and practices that are part of the
> > cultural conditions of our own society (conditions plural) seems doable,
> if
> > necessarily contest. A critique of human Culture as a medium of human
> life
> > seems considerably more problematic.
> >
> > mike
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 9:58 AM, Martin John Packer <
> mpacker@uniandes.edu.co
> >> wrote:
> >
> >> I was simply responding to Paul M.'s (rhetorical?) question as to
> whether
> >> there might be a state of nature to which we could return that would be
> >> outside culture. I said that this is not possible for homo sapiens - we
> >> need culture to survive. Michael G. then suggested that if we can't step
> >> outside culture we cannot critique it. I replied again in the negative,
> and
> >> made a passing reference to Foucault who engaged in research that was
> >> critical of culture from inside: one of his ideas was to work with
> >> marginalized groups to explore ways of living that the mainstream has
> >> ignored. Larry then suggested that Foucault was following
> Merleau-Ponty's
> >> lead, and Phillip responded that Foucault was more influenced by
> Hyppolite.
> >> I countered by suggesting that Foucault's research program - exploring
> what
> >> he called "the historical ontology of ourselves" - in other words, how
> we
> >> are constituted historically (and culturally) as specific kinds of
> person -
> >> was at least consistent with the interests of Merleau-Ponty and Sartre.
> >>
> >> Phew! What a tangled web we weave.
> >>
> >> Martin
> >>
> >> On Sep 18, 2014, at 11:35 AM, Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I thought it was Martin who had mentioned Foucault's "historical
> ontology
> >>> of ourselves"?
> >>>
> >>> I'd love to hear more too (note this is where Martin's book The Science
> >> of
> >>> Qualitative Research leaves off. I'd love to hear the argument
> enlivened
> >>> once again).
> >>>
> >>> Martin?
> >>> -greg
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 9:25 AM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> My apologies if my "chaining" off your comment about cocktail parties
> >>>> distracted from the main point of the ongoing discussion, Phillip.
> >>>>
> >>>> Could you say more about what an historical ontology of oneself
> means? I
> >>>> can understand the truth of the idea that In any interaction with
> >> others,
> >>>> whether at a cocktail party or in an academic discussion group, one is
> >>>> creating one's own history and that an autobiography is a self history
> >> from
> >>>> ego's point of view. If one theorizes, then theorizing is a mode of
> >>>> activity/experience that becomes the material of autobiography.
> >>>>
> >>>> I am still back on David's earlier claim that cultural historical
> >>>> approaches to understanding human development do not view data as ways
> >> of
> >>>> testing/evaluating/improving theory. I may have gotten confused by
> >> thinking
> >>>> that the discussion on Foucault, Merleau-P, et. Were part of that
> >>>> discussion. A lot swirling around at once.
> >>>>
> >>>> A pathway out of the thicket would be gratefully received.
> >>>> Mike
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tuesday, September 16, 2014, White, Phillip <
> >> Phillip.White@ucdenver.edu
> >>>>>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> as you write, Martin, yes, they had similar descriptions of their
> work
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Foucault came to describe his work overall as a "historical ontology
> >> of
> >>>>> ourselves." Certainly both Sartre and Merleau-Ponty were philosophers
> >> on
> >>>>> ontology, and of history."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> the difference is, i believe, that Foucault identified with those
> >> peoples
> >>>>> who have been marginalized: prisoners, those deemed mentally ill, and
> >>>>> homosexuals.  he said that his writings were autobiography.  and i've
> >>>> come
> >>>>> to understand my own work as a way of autobiography.  i've begun to
> >> think
> >>>>> of theory as a way of autobiography.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> i believe that i recognize a great deal of autobiography performed
> here
> >>>> on
> >>>>> xmca - just as one sees autobiography performed at a cocktail party.
> >>>>> (that's a great metaphor!)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> p
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>>
> >>>> Development and Evolution are both ... "processes of construction and
> >> re-
> >>>> construction in which heterogeneous resources are contingently but
> more
> >> or
> >>>> less reliably reassembled for each life cycle." [Oyama, Griffiths, and
> >>>> Gray, 2001]
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> >>> Assistant Professor
> >>> Department of Anthropology
> >>> 882 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> >>> Brigham Young University
> >>> Provo, UT 84602
> >>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Development and Evolution are both ... "processes of construction and re-
> > construction in which heterogeneous resources are contingently but more
> or
> > less reliably reassembled for each life cycle." [Oyama, Griffiths, and
> > Gray, 2001]
>
>
>


-- 

*Robert Lake  Ed.D.*Associate Professor
Social Foundations of Education
Dept. of Curriculum, Foundations, and Reading
Georgia Southern University
Secretary/Treasurer-AERA- Paulo Freire Special Interest Group
P. O. Box 8144
Phone: (912) 478-0355
Fax: (912) 478-5382
Statesboro, GA  30460