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[Xmca-l] Re: Spinoza on xmca



Henry,
Yes, goes *way back* and also a *return* to the *beginning*.

Very *tricky* requiring the awareness of the trickster.
Science as a project opening to the EXCESS BEYOND the *sensation fallacy*
that Merleau-Ponty refers to AS *ontological rehabilitation*
Heidegger and Serres also *playing WITH and WITHIN this SYNERGY
[Merleau-Ponty's term]
Merleau-Ponty was very engaged with the facticity of *experience* . However
he questioned its *reductio* and called us back to EXCESS

Larry
Larry

On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 7:34 AM, Henry G. Shonerd III <hshonerd@gmail.com>
wrote:

> So this goes way back. I googled hermeneutics/hermes and the first line of
> my first hit was the following from Heidigger: "By a playful thinking that
> is more persuasive than the rigor of science." In a Marzano attachment you
> sent me, humor was associated with student engagement. The same thing
> applies to even this highfalutin' XMCA dialog, don't you think?
>
>
> On Sep 16, 2014, at 1:43 AM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Bahktin the trickster.
> > In Greek mythology that was Hermes the messenger who brought messages
> > between [mediated] the divine and the human realms. Bahktin definitely
> > overlaps with Hermes [and hermeneutics]
> > Larry
> >
> > On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 8:42 PM, Henry G. Shonerd III <
> hshonerd@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Greg,
> >> I'm convinced you are right. Like I say, Bakhtin just keeps popping up.
> >> The trickster? Rebelais? What is that about?
> >> Henry
> >>
> >> On Sep 14, 2014, at 8:49 AM, Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> One reason I mention him is because of resonances with ideas.
> >>> But I also mention him as a kind of trickster figure as well as a
> student
> >>> of the trickster in writing (his dissertation was on Rabelais).
> >>> I also mention him as a writer who seems authentically engaged with
> >>> meaningful/emotive aspects of human existence (e.g., Toward a
> Philosophy
> >> of
> >>> the Act, and Author and Hero in Aesthetic Activity).
> >>> And finally, I mention Bakhtin because I'm still not convinced that the
> >>> deep treasures of Bakhtin's work has yet been mined out.
> >>> -greg
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 8:13 PM, Henry G. Shonerd III <
> >> hshonerd@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Greg,
> >>>> Thank you for you good words and great question. I knew about Bakhtin,
> >> but
> >>>> have been finding him everywhere in the articles and chat of XMCA over
> >> the
> >>>> last week. Seriously.
> >>>> Henry
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sep 13, 2014, at 2:26 PM, Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com
> >
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> I would hope that a certain amount of irreverence would be dear to
> most
> >>>>> people on this list!
> >>>>> But seriously Henry, have you come across Bakhtin's work at all?
> >>>>> Seems like another that you might want to throw in with the crowd of
> >>>>> healthy irreverents.
> >>>>> -greg
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 2:48 PM, Henry G. Shonerd III <
> >> hshonerd@gmail.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Mike and David,
> >>>>>> This is seriously getting to be a club that I, like Groucho,  won't
> >>>> join,
> >>>>>> if it takes me as a member. I think all of this seriously evokes
> >> Andy's
> >>>>>> contention, in his notes for the upcoming presentation at the ISCAR
> >>>>>> conference (which XMCA has gotten) that, "Adults can grasp true
> >>>> concepts,
> >>>>>> and can change society, and a social theory has to treat adults as
> >>>> adults,
> >>>>>> and this is what the projects approach allows us to do. " If "adult"
> >>>> means
> >>>>>> the same as "serious", you can see why I have my doubts about
> joining
> >>>> the
> >>>>>> Unserious Scholar Club. On the other hand, if I can have some fun,
> as
> >> in
> >>>>>> the laughing warrior (forget gender stereotypes here, and dare me to
> >>>> talk
> >>>>>> about Jihad), then that's what I'm talking about. Incidentally, I
> >> loved
> >>>>>> Andy's notes. I could so relate it to CG. The emergent character of
> >>>> project
> >>>>>> realization he talks about applies very well to discourse, as you
> can
> >>>> see
> >>>>>> in the articles by Langacker I have sent out. Discourse IS a project
> >> and
> >>>>>> its outcome is typically not entirely clear in the minds of the
> >>>>>> interactants as they negotiate its waters. XMCA, of which this email
> >> is
> >>>> a
> >>>>>> "turn",  is a prototypical "work in progress", as Andy puts it,
> since
> >> we
> >>>>>> clearly don't know where this will all end up. But I hope it can be
> >> fun
> >>>>>> along the way.
> >>>>>> Henry
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Sep 6, 2014, at 1:51 PM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hi Henry-- There goes my pile of books that need to be read before
> >> bed
> >>>>>> time!
> >>>>>>> Spinoza goes up there right next to Dead Souls.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> However, David having already claimed the mantle of unserious
> >> scholar,
> >>>>>> and
> >>>>>>> you having made the same claim, I am afraid that I have to make
> >>>> precisely
> >>>>>>> the same claim on the unrefutable grounds that no one pays me any
> >>>> longer
> >>>>>>> for what I do so I get to be as unserious as i can seriously be!
> >>>>>>> mike
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Henry G. Shonerd III <
> >>>>>> hshonerd@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi Mike,
> >>>>>>>> All I can say now is that Spinoza is famously quoted as having
> said,
> >>>>>> "The
> >>>>>>>> more clearly you understand yourself and your emotions, the more
> you
> >>>>>> become
> >>>>>>>> a lover of what is." This quote happens to appear in the
> >> introduction
> >>>>>> to a
> >>>>>>>> very popular self help book, Loving What Is, by Byron Katie
> (2002).
> >> I
> >>>>>>>> bought the book , obviously, because I thought I needed help. It
> >> did,
> >>>>>> but
> >>>>>>>> it also introduced me to Spinoza. And that has been a deeper
> "help".
> >>>> So,
> >>>>>>>> from a personal perspective, I can totally understand how Spinoza
> >> and
> >>>>>>>> periizhvanie would be connected. For all of you ESL teachers out
> >>>> there,
> >>>>>> who
> >>>>>>>> doesn't remember Krashen on the "affective filter" and I have been
> >>>>>> seeing a
> >>>>>>>> lot on character and education lately. Oh yes, and how failing is
> >>>>>> important
> >>>>>>>> to eventual success. Teasing out issues in the education of
> >>>>>>>> non-mainstreamers, and recognizing how the current system is toxic
> >> for
> >>>>>>>> everyone, I think Spinoza's analysis and the narrative of his life
> >> are
> >>>>>>>> powerful. Vygotsky hits me the same way. Cantor, the
> mathematician,
> >>>> and
> >>>>>>>> Pierce, the philosopher/logician/semiotician, also constantly come
> >> up
> >>>>>> for
> >>>>>>>> me. They were ridiculed by the received cognoscenti of the time,
> so
> >>>>>> much so
> >>>>>>>> that the suffered mental breakdowns. But they pushed on to develop
> >>>>>> tools in
> >>>>>>>> math and semiotics that seem to me are complementary with
> Vygotsky.
> >>>>>> Again I
> >>>>>>>> get to take the role of unserious scholar here, so think of my
> >>>> thoughts
> >>>>>> as
> >>>>>>>> gaming on line and don't take the game too seriously.
> >>>>>>>> Henry
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Sep 5, 2014, at 6:42 PM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Hi David and Henry--
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> David-- I was intrigued by your comment that Spinoza is a
> >>>> controversial
> >>>>>>>>> topic on xmca. I googled Spinoza on the main web page and came up
> >>>> with
> >>>>>> 4K
> >>>>>>>>> plus hits (!!). My own impression is that few on this list, me
> >>>>>> included,
> >>>>>>>>> have engaged in serious study of Spinoza let alone the imprint of
> >>>>>> Spinoza
> >>>>>>>>> on Vygotsky.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> What is the nature of the controversy? What is at stake? The
> topic
> >> is
> >>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>> particular interest to me at present because I have been part of
> >>>>>>>>> discussions with people who are focused on Vygotsky's use of
> >>>>>> perezhivanie
> >>>>>>>>> in his later work, where the relation of emotion and cognition
> is a
> >>>>>>>> central
> >>>>>>>>> concern and Spinoza is clearly relevant.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Henry and anyone interested in chasing down what has been written
> >>>> about
> >>>>>>>>> various topics in xmca chatter, take advantage of the nice google
> >>>>>> search
> >>>>>>>> at
> >>>>>>>>> lchc.ucsd.edu.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> mike
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> (who enmeshed in the sense/meaning distinction in all of its
> >>>>>> multilingual
> >>>>>>>>> confusifications at present)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> >>>>> Assistant Professor
> >>>>> Department of Anthropology
> >>>>> 882 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> >>>>> Brigham Young University
> >>>>> Provo, UT 84602
> >>>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> >>> Assistant Professor
> >>> Department of Anthropology
> >>> 882 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> >>> Brigham Young University
> >>> Provo, UT 84602
> >>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>