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[Xmca-l] Re: Spinoza on xmca



So this goes way back. I googled hermeneutics/hermes and the first line of my first hit was the following from Heidigger: "By a playful thinking that is more persuasive than the rigor of science." In a Marzano attachment you sent me, humor was associated with student engagement. The same thing applies to even this highfalutin' XMCA dialog, don't you think?


On Sep 16, 2014, at 1:43 AM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:

> Bahktin the trickster.
> In Greek mythology that was Hermes the messenger who brought messages
> between [mediated] the divine and the human realms. Bahktin definitely
> overlaps with Hermes [and hermeneutics]
> Larry
> 
> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 8:42 PM, Henry G. Shonerd III <hshonerd@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Greg,
>> I'm convinced you are right. Like I say, Bakhtin just keeps popping up.
>> The trickster? Rebelais? What is that about?
>> Henry
>> 
>> On Sep 14, 2014, at 8:49 AM, Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> One reason I mention him is because of resonances with ideas.
>>> But I also mention him as a kind of trickster figure as well as a student
>>> of the trickster in writing (his dissertation was on Rabelais).
>>> I also mention him as a writer who seems authentically engaged with
>>> meaningful/emotive aspects of human existence (e.g., Toward a Philosophy
>> of
>>> the Act, and Author and Hero in Aesthetic Activity).
>>> And finally, I mention Bakhtin because I'm still not convinced that the
>>> deep treasures of Bakhtin's work has yet been mined out.
>>> -greg
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 8:13 PM, Henry G. Shonerd III <
>> hshonerd@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Greg,
>>>> Thank you for you good words and great question. I knew about Bakhtin,
>> but
>>>> have been finding him everywhere in the articles and chat of XMCA over
>> the
>>>> last week. Seriously.
>>>> Henry
>>>> 
>>>> On Sep 13, 2014, at 2:26 PM, Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I would hope that a certain amount of irreverence would be dear to most
>>>>> people on this list!
>>>>> But seriously Henry, have you come across Bakhtin's work at all?
>>>>> Seems like another that you might want to throw in with the crowd of
>>>>> healthy irreverents.
>>>>> -greg
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 2:48 PM, Henry G. Shonerd III <
>> hshonerd@gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mike and David,
>>>>>> This is seriously getting to be a club that I, like Groucho,  won't
>>>> join,
>>>>>> if it takes me as a member. I think all of this seriously evokes
>> Andy's
>>>>>> contention, in his notes for the upcoming presentation at the ISCAR
>>>>>> conference (which XMCA has gotten) that, "Adults can grasp true
>>>> concepts,
>>>>>> and can change society, and a social theory has to treat adults as
>>>> adults,
>>>>>> and this is what the projects approach allows us to do. " If "adult"
>>>> means
>>>>>> the same as "serious", you can see why I have my doubts about joining
>>>> the
>>>>>> Unserious Scholar Club. On the other hand, if I can have some fun, as
>> in
>>>>>> the laughing warrior (forget gender stereotypes here, and dare me to
>>>> talk
>>>>>> about Jihad), then that's what I'm talking about. Incidentally, I
>> loved
>>>>>> Andy's notes. I could so relate it to CG. The emergent character of
>>>> project
>>>>>> realization he talks about applies very well to discourse, as you can
>>>> see
>>>>>> in the articles by Langacker I have sent out. Discourse IS a project
>> and
>>>>>> its outcome is typically not entirely clear in the minds of the
>>>>>> interactants as they negotiate its waters. XMCA, of which this email
>> is
>>>> a
>>>>>> "turn",  is a prototypical "work in progress", as Andy puts it, since
>> we
>>>>>> clearly don't know where this will all end up. But I hope it can be
>> fun
>>>>>> along the way.
>>>>>> Henry
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sep 6, 2014, at 1:51 PM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi Henry-- There goes my pile of books that need to be read before
>> bed
>>>>>> time!
>>>>>>> Spinoza goes up there right next to Dead Souls.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> However, David having already claimed the mantle of unserious
>> scholar,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> you having made the same claim, I am afraid that I have to make
>>>> precisely
>>>>>>> the same claim on the unrefutable grounds that no one pays me any
>>>> longer
>>>>>>> for what I do so I get to be as unserious as i can seriously be!
>>>>>>> mike
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Henry G. Shonerd III <
>>>>>> hshonerd@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi Mike,
>>>>>>>> All I can say now is that Spinoza is famously quoted as having said,
>>>>>> "The
>>>>>>>> more clearly you understand yourself and your emotions, the more you
>>>>>> become
>>>>>>>> a lover of what is." This quote happens to appear in the
>> introduction
>>>>>> to a
>>>>>>>> very popular self help book, Loving What Is, by Byron Katie (2002).
>> I
>>>>>>>> bought the book , obviously, because I thought I needed help. It
>> did,
>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>> it also introduced me to Spinoza. And that has been a deeper "help".
>>>> So,
>>>>>>>> from a personal perspective, I can totally understand how Spinoza
>> and
>>>>>>>> periizhvanie would be connected. For all of you ESL teachers out
>>>> there,
>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>> doesn't remember Krashen on the "affective filter" and I have been
>>>>>> seeing a
>>>>>>>> lot on character and education lately. Oh yes, and how failing is
>>>>>> important
>>>>>>>> to eventual success. Teasing out issues in the education of
>>>>>>>> non-mainstreamers, and recognizing how the current system is toxic
>> for
>>>>>>>> everyone, I think Spinoza's analysis and the narrative of his life
>> are
>>>>>>>> powerful. Vygotsky hits me the same way. Cantor, the mathematician,
>>>> and
>>>>>>>> Pierce, the philosopher/logician/semiotician, also constantly come
>> up
>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> me. They were ridiculed by the received cognoscenti of the time, so
>>>>>> much so
>>>>>>>> that the suffered mental breakdowns. But they pushed on to develop
>>>>>> tools in
>>>>>>>> math and semiotics that seem to me are complementary with Vygotsky.
>>>>>> Again I
>>>>>>>> get to take the role of unserious scholar here, so think of my
>>>> thoughts
>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> gaming on line and don't take the game too seriously.
>>>>>>>> Henry
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Sep 5, 2014, at 6:42 PM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Hi David and Henry--
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> David-- I was intrigued by your comment that Spinoza is a
>>>> controversial
>>>>>>>>> topic on xmca. I googled Spinoza on the main web page and came up
>>>> with
>>>>>> 4K
>>>>>>>>> plus hits (!!). My own impression is that few on this list, me
>>>>>> included,
>>>>>>>>> have engaged in serious study of Spinoza let alone the imprint of
>>>>>> Spinoza
>>>>>>>>> on Vygotsky.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> What is the nature of the controversy? What is at stake? The topic
>> is
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> particular interest to me at present because I have been part of
>>>>>>>>> discussions with people who are focused on Vygotsky's use of
>>>>>> perezhivanie
>>>>>>>>> in his later work, where the relation of emotion and cognition is a
>>>>>>>> central
>>>>>>>>> concern and Spinoza is clearly relevant.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Henry and anyone interested in chasing down what has been written
>>>> about
>>>>>>>>> various topics in xmca chatter, take advantage of the nice google
>>>>>> search
>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>> lchc.ucsd.edu.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> mike
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> (who enmeshed in the sense/meaning distinction in all of its
>>>>>> multilingual
>>>>>>>>> confusifications at present)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
>>>>> Assistant Professor
>>>>> Department of Anthropology
>>>>> 882 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
>>>>> Brigham Young University
>>>>> Provo, UT 84602
>>>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
>>> Assistant Professor
>>> Department of Anthropology
>>> 882 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
>>> Brigham Young University
>>> Provo, UT 84602
>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
>> 
>> 
>>