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[Xmca-l] Re: Spinoza on xmca



Bahktin the trickster.
In Greek mythology that was Hermes the messenger who brought messages
between [mediated] the divine and the human realms. Bahktin definitely
overlaps with Hermes [and hermeneutics]
Larry

On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 8:42 PM, Henry G. Shonerd III <hshonerd@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Greg,
> I'm convinced you are right. Like I say, Bakhtin just keeps popping up.
> The trickster? Rebelais? What is that about?
> Henry
>
> On Sep 14, 2014, at 8:49 AM, Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > One reason I mention him is because of resonances with ideas.
> > But I also mention him as a kind of trickster figure as well as a student
> > of the trickster in writing (his dissertation was on Rabelais).
> > I also mention him as a writer who seems authentically engaged with
> > meaningful/emotive aspects of human existence (e.g., Toward a Philosophy
> of
> > the Act, and Author and Hero in Aesthetic Activity).
> > And finally, I mention Bakhtin because I'm still not convinced that the
> > deep treasures of Bakhtin's work has yet been mined out.
> > -greg
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 8:13 PM, Henry G. Shonerd III <
> hshonerd@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Greg,
> >> Thank you for you good words and great question. I knew about Bakhtin,
> but
> >> have been finding him everywhere in the articles and chat of XMCA over
> the
> >> last week. Seriously.
> >> Henry
> >>
> >> On Sep 13, 2014, at 2:26 PM, Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I would hope that a certain amount of irreverence would be dear to most
> >>> people on this list!
> >>> But seriously Henry, have you come across Bakhtin's work at all?
> >>> Seems like another that you might want to throw in with the crowd of
> >>> healthy irreverents.
> >>> -greg
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 2:48 PM, Henry G. Shonerd III <
> hshonerd@gmail.com
> >>>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Mike and David,
> >>>> This is seriously getting to be a club that I, like Groucho,  won't
> >> join,
> >>>> if it takes me as a member. I think all of this seriously evokes
> Andy's
> >>>> contention, in his notes for the upcoming presentation at the ISCAR
> >>>> conference (which XMCA has gotten) that, "Adults can grasp true
> >> concepts,
> >>>> and can change society, and a social theory has to treat adults as
> >> adults,
> >>>> and this is what the projects approach allows us to do. " If "adult"
> >> means
> >>>> the same as "serious", you can see why I have my doubts about joining
> >> the
> >>>> Unserious Scholar Club. On the other hand, if I can have some fun, as
> in
> >>>> the laughing warrior (forget gender stereotypes here, and dare me to
> >> talk
> >>>> about Jihad), then that's what I'm talking about. Incidentally, I
> loved
> >>>> Andy's notes. I could so relate it to CG. The emergent character of
> >> project
> >>>> realization he talks about applies very well to discourse, as you can
> >> see
> >>>> in the articles by Langacker I have sent out. Discourse IS a project
> and
> >>>> its outcome is typically not entirely clear in the minds of the
> >>>> interactants as they negotiate its waters. XMCA, of which this email
> is
> >> a
> >>>> "turn",  is a prototypical "work in progress", as Andy puts it, since
> we
> >>>> clearly don't know where this will all end up. But I hope it can be
> fun
> >>>> along the way.
> >>>> Henry
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sep 6, 2014, at 1:51 PM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi Henry-- There goes my pile of books that need to be read before
> bed
> >>>> time!
> >>>>> Spinoza goes up there right next to Dead Souls.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> However, David having already claimed the mantle of unserious
> scholar,
> >>>> and
> >>>>> you having made the same claim, I am afraid that I have to make
> >> precisely
> >>>>> the same claim on the unrefutable grounds that no one pays me any
> >> longer
> >>>>> for what I do so I get to be as unserious as i can seriously be!
> >>>>> mike
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Henry G. Shonerd III <
> >>>> hshonerd@gmail.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi Mike,
> >>>>>> All I can say now is that Spinoza is famously quoted as having said,
> >>>> "The
> >>>>>> more clearly you understand yourself and your emotions, the more you
> >>>> become
> >>>>>> a lover of what is." This quote happens to appear in the
> introduction
> >>>> to a
> >>>>>> very popular self help book, Loving What Is, by Byron Katie (2002).
> I
> >>>>>> bought the book , obviously, because I thought I needed help. It
> did,
> >>>> but
> >>>>>> it also introduced me to Spinoza. And that has been a deeper "help".
> >> So,
> >>>>>> from a personal perspective, I can totally understand how Spinoza
> and
> >>>>>> periizhvanie would be connected. For all of you ESL teachers out
> >> there,
> >>>> who
> >>>>>> doesn't remember Krashen on the "affective filter" and I have been
> >>>> seeing a
> >>>>>> lot on character and education lately. Oh yes, and how failing is
> >>>> important
> >>>>>> to eventual success. Teasing out issues in the education of
> >>>>>> non-mainstreamers, and recognizing how the current system is toxic
> for
> >>>>>> everyone, I think Spinoza's analysis and the narrative of his life
> are
> >>>>>> powerful. Vygotsky hits me the same way. Cantor, the mathematician,
> >> and
> >>>>>> Pierce, the philosopher/logician/semiotician, also constantly come
> up
> >>>> for
> >>>>>> me. They were ridiculed by the received cognoscenti of the time, so
> >>>> much so
> >>>>>> that the suffered mental breakdowns. But they pushed on to develop
> >>>> tools in
> >>>>>> math and semiotics that seem to me are complementary with Vygotsky.
> >>>> Again I
> >>>>>> get to take the role of unserious scholar here, so think of my
> >> thoughts
> >>>> as
> >>>>>> gaming on line and don't take the game too seriously.
> >>>>>> Henry
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Sep 5, 2014, at 6:42 PM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hi David and Henry--
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> David-- I was intrigued by your comment that Spinoza is a
> >> controversial
> >>>>>>> topic on xmca. I googled Spinoza on the main web page and came up
> >> with
> >>>> 4K
> >>>>>>> plus hits (!!). My own impression is that few on this list, me
> >>>> included,
> >>>>>>> have engaged in serious study of Spinoza let alone the imprint of
> >>>> Spinoza
> >>>>>>> on Vygotsky.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> What is the nature of the controversy? What is at stake? The topic
> is
> >>>> of
> >>>>>>> particular interest to me at present because I have been part of
> >>>>>>> discussions with people who are focused on Vygotsky's use of
> >>>> perezhivanie
> >>>>>>> in his later work, where the relation of emotion and cognition is a
> >>>>>> central
> >>>>>>> concern and Spinoza is clearly relevant.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Henry and anyone interested in chasing down what has been written
> >> about
> >>>>>>> various topics in xmca chatter, take advantage of the nice google
> >>>> search
> >>>>>> at
> >>>>>>> lchc.ucsd.edu.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> mike
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> (who enmeshed in the sense/meaning distinction in all of its
> >>>> multilingual
> >>>>>>> confusifications at present)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> >>> Assistant Professor
> >>> Department of Anthropology
> >>> 882 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> >>> Brigham Young University
> >>> Provo, UT 84602
> >>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> > Assistant Professor
> > Department of Anthropology
> > 882 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> > Brigham Young University
> > Provo, UT 84602
> > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
>
>
>