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[Xmca-l] Re: Nate's new webpage on Vygotsky



David Ki and MichaelG --- Might you suggest an essay or two that would
help us to address seriously the questions you raise? For example, I can
think of Jim Wertsch's essay on mediation in that companion to Vygotsky or
Wolf Michael Roth's article in Theory and Psychology. You may have better
text to suggest.

Both of those texts we could find a way to make generally available if
there was sufficient interest in focusing on the topic.

Mike -- for now a blind man with stick and a date to meet some friends
colleagues online.



On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 7:59 AM, Glassman, Michael <glassman.13@osu.edu>
wrote:

> I think I have trouble with this.  Aren't mediated actions something we
> developed over time to help us in our communications with each other, and
> organizing those communications?  Doesn't that mean that there must be some
> human actions that pre-date mediating capabilities.  Did we just completely
> jettison them?  Or do we just use mediation to claim they don't exist.
>
> I read recently that the reason some dogs are very social and very close
> to you is at least partly because they are observing you.  They are trying
> to gauge when you are paying attention and when you are not - so that they
> become very good at stealing food, but also knowing when you need their
> warmth.  Having had two very different dogs of the same breed in succession
> I think I can attest to this.  There is no mediation in the relationship,
> at least for the dog.  Don't humans have the same thing.  Aren't there
> humans who can watch somebody closely and see their unmediated actions and
> determine how they should act in the moment - really good at stealing but
> also knowing when you need warmth?  Don't we call them politicians?
>
> Michael
> ________________________________________
> From: xmca-l-bounces+mglassman=ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu
> [xmca-l-bounces+mglassman=ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu] on behalf
> of Stone, Lynda [lstone@skymail.csus.edu]
> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2014 10:52 AM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Nate's new webpage on Vygotsky
>
> David--
>
> how can actions be unmediated if there are "voices of the mind" (i.e.,
> culture)  with us at all times?
>
> lynda
>
> On Sep 13, 2014, at 7:40 AM, David H Kirshner wrote:
>
> Aside from physical reflexes, are there any actions that are unmediated?
> David
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu<mailto:
> xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu]
> On Behalf Of Stone, Lynda
> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2014 9:15 AM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Nate's new webpage on Vygotsky
>
> Ester,
>
> That's my view also---but I've found that this metaphor has led folks to
> think, and I quote, justified "direct instruction" in addition to my
> students thinking that Vygostky came up with the idea, these are seniors
> and entering Master students in a child development program so it's their
> prior instruction---
>
>  Well I guess I added to your "tuppence" a bit--
>
> lynda
>
>
> On Sep 13, 2014, at 4:51 AM, Carol Macdonald wrote:
>
> Esther
>
> The zone of proximal development is constructed in mediated activity.
>
> That's my tuppence worth.
>
> Carol
>
> On 13 September 2014 11:12, Esther Goody <eg100@hermes.cam.ac.uk<mailto:
> eg100@hermes.cam.ac.uk>> wrote:
>
> Hmmmm,
> Re scaffolding = zone of proximal development:
> Is it?/Are they?
>
> I thought zone of proximal development was in one's head ..............
> While scaffolding, a la Brunner, by definition involves at least two
> people.
>
> [Of course text-actor could be seen as scaffolding. But this leads away
> from activity. I hope Vygotsky would not have got mired in text-actor stuff
> ]
>
> I am currently obsessed by the way dialogue - real exchanges between real
> people - seems to account for aspects of cognition.
> So it is important to keep role of actors central.
>
>       Comments?
>               Esther Goody
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu<mailto:
> xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> [mailto:
> xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Stone, Lynda
> Sent: 12 September 2014 23:42
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Nate's new webpage on Vygotsky
>
> Hi All!
>
> I just wanted to share that I use Peg and Mike's paper in all of my
> cognitive development classes for both undergraduate and graduate
> students.  It has been extremely helpful---my students, I'm thrilled to
> say, develop more complex understandings of what the zoped involves.  And
> when I combine this article with Activity
> Theory---
> the leading activity not only makes sense to them but also allows them to
> see how the intersubjective processes through which knowledge is
> constructed are influenced by multiple aspects of a context--including
> motives.  They even change their views about "context" and come to
> understand it as a dynamic phenomenon--- okay, I share this to say that
> this article is particularly helpful because by reading it my students see
> how culture and cognition  (another paper of Mike's) are constructed in the
> zoped.  These understandings are so different from the scaffolding metaphor
> and most all of my students have been taught that scaffolding is equivalent
> to the zoped.
>
> Hope this sharing is useful---
>
> -lynda
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 10, 2014, at 2:27 PM, mike cole wrote:
>
> The paper Peg and I wrote which takes up scaffolding along with other
> metaphors can be found at   http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Mike    current activity
> for the future is the title.
>
> mike
>
> On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 11:02 AM, Henry G. Shonerd III <hshonerd@gmail.com
> <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com>
> <mailto:hshonerd@gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> I appreciate ALL of the attachments! I worry that I am not Vygotskian
> enough, and would have thought Marzano was out of the XMCA mainstream. I am
> reminded of the XMCA conversation on direct instruction a few weeks back
> wherein Lisa Delpit's Other Peoples Children (1995) is cited as supporting
> DISTAR, prototypical direct instruction. In the same book, is a chapter on
> the "Silenced Dialog". I had a fantasy that Delpit could jump right in to
> the XMCA chat. I am embarrassed to say that I tried to get in touch with
> her (she was SO nice to me when we met some years ago), but she never
> responded, maybe for no other reason than that she is super busy doing
> other things. Maybe she got the message, but didn't want to join one more
> listserve. But I am wondering what she might have transpired if she joined
> in. I am thinking distributed cognition (Hutchins) and cognitive pluralism
> (a term I know from Vera's book, Creative Collaboration). The attachments
> that Phillip sent seem to find direct instruction complementary with more
> dialogic approaches to instruction, as per the turn-over principle of
> Bruner.
> Henry
>
> On Sep 10, 2014, at 9:58 AM, "White, Phillip" <Phillip.White@ucdenver.edu
> <mailto:Phillip.White@ucdenver.edu>
> <mailto:Phillip.White@ucdenver.edu>>
> wrote:
>
> like Henry, i find the metaphor 'scaffolding' a useful term, and at the
> same time i'm also strengthening that metaphor with Brian Cambourne's
> "conditions for learning" that lead to student engagement, as well as how
> it relates to student engagement (Marzano), Fisher's "gradual release of
> responsibility" and Lave & Wenger's "community of practice"  -  in
> combination these works (along with critical race theory and queer theory,
> identity theory, Foucault's understanding of power - an impoverished
> listing here) provide a far richer, more complex understanding of student
> learning, than "motive" in CHAT.
>
> for me, theory is a mutable impression - much like a calligraphic haiku
> - in which theoretical understanding changes over time, context,
> relationships and experiences (again, an incomplete list).
>
> i hope that there aren't too many attachments here.
>
>
> phillip
>
>
>
> Phillip White, PhD
> Urban Community Teacher Education Program Site Coordinator Montview
> Elementary, Aurora, CO phillip.white@ucdenver.edu<mailto:
> phillip.white@ucdenver.edu>
> or
> pawhite@aps.k12.co.us<mailto:pawhite@aps.k12.co.us>
>
> <GradualReleaseResponsibilityJan08.pdf><lave(1996)_teaching.pdf><MarzanoHighlyEngagedClassroom.pdf><Cambourne
> Conditions.doc>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Development and Evolution are both ... "processes of construction and re-
> construction in which heterogeneous resources are contingently but more or
> less reliably reassembled for each life cycle." [Oyama, Griffiths, and
> Gray, 2001]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lynda Stone, Ph.D.
> Professor
> Dept. Child Development
> CSU Sacramento
> CSUS/UC-Links Program Director
> lstone@csus.edu<mailto:lstone@csus.edu>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----
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>
>
>
>
> --
> Carol A  Macdonald Ph D (Edin)
> Developmental psycholinguist
> Academic, Researcher,  and Editor
> Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lynda Stone, Ph.D.
> Professor
> Dept. Child Development
> CSU Sacramento
> CSUS/UC-Links Program Director
> lstone@csus.edu<mailto:lstone@csus.edu>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lynda Stone, Ph.D.
> Professor
> Dept. Child Development
> CSU Sacramento
> CSUS/UC-Links Program Director
> lstone@csus.edu<mailto:lstone@csus.edu>
>
>
>
>
>
>


-- 

Development and Evolution are both ... "processes of construction and re-
construction in which heterogeneous resources are contingently but more or
less reliably reassembled for each life cycle." [Oyama, Griffiths, and
Gray, 2001]