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[Xmca-l] Re: bildung and obuchenie
your interpretation just shows that word meaning is developing with
experience (You have appropriate and relevant obrazovanie to add many
associations). The same way any term has a whole semantic field of
associations and can be used in different contexts. Thus obuchenie more
readily would be used in a context of professional instruction: "он прошел
обучение" means that he learned something and we can expect that he knows
something; but one *does not* say that "Я прошла обучение у Лурии"
Образование more official and general
Министерство Образования, Академия образования, высшее образование; он
образованный человек, получил хорошее образование.
every time the context is important for interpretation.
Sincerely yours Bella Kotik-Friedgut
On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 10:22 AM, Rod Parker-Rees <
> Can you say a bit more, Bella. I had understood obuchenie as including
> aspects of WHAT is taught in 'educational' exchanges (the explicit
> curriculum) and more subtle, personal features of what such exchanges
> reveal about the 'teacher' and the 'learner', so that more is learned than
> is taught and associations, values, priorities, social rules and customs
> etc. come to be wrapped around WHAT is taught. For me it is this 'aura' of
> what we know about what people we know think and feel about the things we
> know that converts 'knowing' into 'understanding' and I had suspected that
> this more general recognition of the learning associated with the person of
> the teacher might explain why some Russian academics tend to place
> themselves by listing a line of descent - I studies with X, who studied
> with Y, who studied with Vygotsky.
> The relationship between 'education' and 'instruction' is complicated,
> too. I think in England 'instruction' comes with a much stronger aura of
> 'chalk and talk' (and canes!) than it does in America and elsewhere but
> education is also increasingly used as a synonym for 'schooling'.
> So what sort of situations would obrazovanie be used in and when would
> obuchenie be more appropriate?
> All the best,
> -----Original Message-----
> From: firstname.lastname@example.org [mailto:
> email@example.com] On Behalf Of Bella Kotik-Friedgut
> Sent: 09 July 2014 08:05
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: bildung and obuchenie
> obrazovanie usually is used in context similar to education and obuchenie
> in context of instruction
> Sincerely yours Bella Kotik-Friedgut
> On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 9:33 AM, Wagner Luiz Schmit <
> > Dear colleagues,
> > I am reading some material regarding "bildung" now and thinking in
> > making some approach of Vygotsky "perezhivanie" as an "unit of
> > analysis" of "bildung" (expanding this unit from the unit of analysis
> > of personality - I think I read this in a text by Andy here
> > Anyway, doing some preliminary search on the net I found this quote (
> > http://goo.gl/4xgt09) pointing "Obuchenie" as different of "obrazovanie"
> > and that this later one is closer to "bildung". Any help from our
> > Russian speakers in detailing the meaning of these words?
> > At least in my head when Vygotsky talks about a person development in
> > a more broad way, I relate this to "bildung". Is this a viable approach?
> > Sorry for bringing this old discussion back to life.
> > Wagner
> > On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 2:24 PM, Greg Thompson
> > <firstname.lastname@example.org>
> > wrote:
> > > In reading the article I just mentioned (in Anthropology and
> > > Education Quarterly), I got to thinking that bildung seems very
> > > similar to
> > obuchenie.
> > > I asked a Russian professor who happened to be in a classroom before
> > > a class I was teaching and she described a concept that seemed very
> > > similar to bildung. From what I could gather, obuchenie has the same
> > > sense of "cultivation" that seems to be at the heart of bildung. And
> > > of course I don't mean "cultivation" in the high cultural sense of
> > > being a
> > "cultivated"
> > > person (although this might have been part of what the early authors
> > > writing about "bildung" had in mind) rather I mean the idea of a
> > > full development of the human, not merely the dumping of information
> > > into the individual.
> > >
> > > Anyone have any sense about overlap between these concepts?
> > > Are they as similar as they seem to me?
> > > If different, then how so?
> > >
> > > And I wonder how people would feel about the term "character education"
> > as
> > > an English analogue to the German bildung and the Russian obuchenie?
> > >
> > > Yes, yes, yes, I know that this aligns with politics that make many
> > people
> > > sick to their stomach, but frankly, I'm interested in imagining a
> > politics
> > > that isn't so provincial as the American Left and Right so I'm
> > > always looking for politically polyvalent concepts. What do you
> > > think? Could
> > this
> > > be a concept that can work in politically polar opposite communities?
> > >
> > > -greg
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> > > Assistant Professor
> > > Department of Anthropology
> > > 883 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> > > Brigham Young University
> > > Provo, UT 84602
> > > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
> > >
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