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[Xmca-l] Re: LSV on language as a model of development



Maybe, but Alfredo has been working with W-M Roth, and in a recent paper Roth claims to quote Vygotsky saying that experience is "the dynamic unit of affective and intellectual processes" (Roth's translation) and goes on to make it clear that this was not a slip of the pen, but he means "unit".
Andy
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/


mike cole wrote:
That is how I interpreted Alfredo, Andy.
(signed)

an /in/-experienced oldtimer
mike


On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 6:45 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:

    I am familiar with Dewey's work on this, Alfredo, and I too have
    found it
    very useful. That was not my problem. But thinking about it, I
    suspect it
    was just an English expression problem.
    You said "experience is a unit of doing and undergoing". But I
    think you
    meant to say "experience is a unity of doing and undergoing," which is
    certainly true. Just as activity is a unity of consciousness and
    behaviour, or identity is a unity of recognition and
    self-consciousness,
    etc.
    But a *unit* is something different from *unity*. "Experience" in this
    sense is not a unit at all; "an experience" can be a unit, but not
    a unit
    of doing and undergoing.

    Is that right, Alfredo?
    Andy

    > Dewey, most extensively in chapter 3 of "Art as experience", makes a
    > distinction between the general stream of experience, and an
    experience,
    > which, according to him, is the experience that "is a whole and
    carries
    > with it its own individualizing quality and self-sufficiency".
    After the
    > fact, an experience "has a unity that gives it its name, that
    meal, that
    > storm, that rupture of friendship", Dewey writes. He further
    says that,
    > within that unity, there is both an aspect of doing, of
    initiation, and
    > another of undergoing, "of suffering in its large sense". He further
    > articulates the relation between the doing and the undergoing in
    terms of
    > "anticipation" and "consummation" "Anticipation" he writes "is the
    > connecting link between the next doing and its outcome for
    sense. What is
    > done and what is undergone are thus reciprocally, cumulatively, and
    > continuously instrumental to each other"
    >
    > Although in most passages these notes have a rather
    individualistic taste,
    > he goes on to clarify that there is a prominent public character in
    > experience: "without external embodiment, an experience remains
    > incomplete" he says. In the same chapter, he also argues that
    "it is not
    > possible to divide in a vital experience the practical,
    emotional, and
    > intellectual from one another." Both these conditions may make
    it possible
    > to draw connections between Dewey's notion of experience and
    Vygotsky's
    > perezivanie.
    >
    > In any case, I find interesting the dialectic Dewey proposes
    between doing
    > and undergoing as aspects of a minimal unit of sense-full experience
    > because it allows for thinking of being immersed in a developmental
    > situation in which the final form already exists before the
    intellect
    > grasps it, so that we do not need to put individual knowledge
    > constructions as who puts the cart before the horse.
    >
    > But this is my reading, which may have obviated other aspects
    that would
    > preclude this reading?
    > Hope this was of help.
    > Best,
    >
    > Alfredo
    > ________________________________________
    > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
    <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
    <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>> on
    > behalf of Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net
    <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
    > Sent: 03 July 2014 17:17
    > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
    > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: LSV on language as a model of development
    >
    > Alfredo, what did you mean by:
    >> ... as he argued, experience is a unit of doing and undergoing,
    >
    > Andy
    >
    >
    >