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[Xmca-l] Re: About Vygotsky and Bar-Kokhba [Бар-Кохба (בר כוכבא‎)]. Bella or somebody can instruct me?

"Quite a statement" is quite a compliment, as I see it.  And thank you Achilles, for a question rooted in the text.  In consideration of capitalism vs ? and Party? vs ? and being in "a patron"'s pocket versus standing for the little ones at all times, and everything we have talked about play and game here in this list, it seems that David's reference to a work that can be called "quite a statement" is worthy of discussion, framing, and debate, if that is called for, or at least response. Especially since we are also talking at the same time about a TED talk about play and the academic problems of framing problems.
Vandy (Valerie)  

-----Original Message-----
From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Jan Aukes
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2014 0:28
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: About Vygotsky and Bar-Kokhba [Бар-Кохба (בר כוכבא‎)]. Bella or somebody can instruct me?

Simon Bar Kochba as the real Christ? That seems to me quite a statement. 

> Op 21 jun. 2014 om 10:17 heeft David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com> het volgende geschreven:
> Achilles:
> Actually, Bar Kochba was the real Jesus Christ. There was a biography 
> of Christ called "Zealot" written not long ago which raised a big 
> scandal in the USA because it was written by a Muslim. The really 
> revolutionary thing about the book, though, was that it tried to 
> understand what Christ must have meant to the Jews of his time. 
> Actually, there were hundreds of Christs--political leaders of the 
> Jews who declared themselves Messiahs and tried to get rid of Roman rule, ending up crucified.
> Bar Kochba was different because he actually succeeded. That is, the 
> Romans were expelled from Judea, and a real Jewish state was set up 
> for three years (until 132 AD, if I remember correctly). Then the 
> Romans took Judea back, and murdered everybody even remotely connected 
> with the successful rebellion. The Christians, who had never been 
> sympathetic to the rebellion in the first place (because of course 
> they had already had their Messiah) at this point became a strongly 
> pro-Roman religion, and decided to convert non-Jews, eventually winning over the Emperor himself.
> As you probably know, there was a big debate over "Liberation 
> Theology" in Latin America during the sixties. A lot of this centred 
> around the discovery by some Latin American priests that prior to the 
> pro-Roman turn, Christianity had been a strongly revolutionary creed 
> associated with someone who was, in essence, a somewhat premature Bar Kochba.
> A final note, just because I like to tie threads together and we have 
> been talking about play. The Forbidden Colors game which Leontiev uses 
> in his studies of attention and will is related to a traditional 
> Jewish "Yes/No"game called "Bar Kochba".
> David Kellogg
> Hankuk University of Foreign Studies
>> On 21 June 2014 14:49, Achilles Delari Junior <achilles@delari.net> wrote:
>> Please, dear professors,
>> In front Vygotsky's publications about poetry, theatre and arts in 
>> general, from Gomel's 1921/1922 period, I turn motivated to know 
>> something about the relation of Vygotsky as man (tchelovek), citizen 
>> and young thinker, with different kinds of insurgent social process, 
>> struggling for freedom. For instance there are, at least, 3 different 
>> situations of this kind touched by him in those newspaper 
>> publications : (1) Bar-Kohba; (2) The Dekabrists; and (3) October 
>> Revolution. But what more deeply touch me is just the first one, 
>> because I really do not know nothing about, and seems to be very very 
>> important in Jewish long history for Land and Freedom. And, believe 
>> me or not, this is important for many people here in my country, not 
>> necessarily Jews. If you pleased, could you help me to find more 
>> reliable sources about the historical process in which was envolved 
>> Bar-Kohba? If the answer would be excessively obvious - sorry for spend your time with me. I will search better by myself. Thank you, a lot.
>> Achilles, from Brazil.