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[Xmca-l] Re: Questioning universal core emotions



Hi

I think that even pain can be controlled.  It's tempting to say this this
is universal since is is part of our physiology, but people can control the
degree they register pain, some to a remarkable extent.  Then too our
outward manifestation of pain will also be relative.

Carol


On 6 May 2014 20:28, Elinami Swai <swaiev@gmail.com> wrote:

> I believe that pain, just like feeling is universal. But I also
> believe that emotion (which we can also call expression) is learned
> and thus may differ from one individual to another. We make
> interpretations of emotion and expression from our own points of view.
>
>
> On 5/6/14, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
> > David, although I am sure that sensations cannot be taken as universal
> > either, since it is unlikely that there is anything remaining after the
> > interprettion of the "sensation" is abstracted. However, it is
> > nonetheless a different claim to say that human sensation is not
> > universal, as to say human emotion (by which is meant I think "feeling")
> > is not universal. Let's suppose all are experiencing pain: they are all
> > clearly feeling different about it.
> >
> > Or was that your point?
> >
> > Andy
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *Andy Blunden*
> > http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> >
> >
> > David Kellogg wrote:
> >> Suppose I put together a set of pictures of people undergoing torture,
> in
> >> which some people appeared to be experiencing the torture stoically,
> >> others
> >> with resignation, still others with agony, and some with something that
> >> appears to be laughter.
> >>
> >> I think I could probably crop the photographs and pose questions in such
> >> a
> >> way that I could very convincingly demonstrate that pain is not a
> >> universal
> >> human sensation. Not only that, I could probably put together a sorting
> >> exercise that would come to the same conclusion.
> >>
> >> David Kellogg
> >> Hankuk University of Foreign Studies
> >>
> >>
> >> On 5 May 2014 01:24, Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> I have a colleague down the hall, David Crandall, that has been working
> >>> among the Himba for almost 30 years. I also have three students headed
> >>> to
> >>> do research among the Himba in a month. So I've been picking up some
> >>> interesting details about the Himba.
> >>>
> >>> It seems like it is true that they have increasingly had contact with
> >>> Western culture, as evidenced by recent protests in some of the larger
> >>> cities that were staged by Himba opposed to the building of a dam that
> >>> would cause flooding of some of the burial sites of their ancestors (
> >>> http://www.huntingtonnews.net/84854).
> >>>
> >>> At the same time, they are non-numerate people that lack some of the
> key
> >>> Western institutions where kids learn (oddly enough) about "emotions"
> >>> (think of those pictures of happy and sad faces that Western schooling
> >>> takes into the classroom as the MEANS by which they teach literacy -
> >>> these
> >>> means of teaching literacy always entail certain cultural ends - such
> as
> >>> "emotion" - concepts that are not emic concepts).
> >>>
> >>> Among the western institutions that the Himba lack, the Himba lack the
> >>> Western model of schooling (one of my students is doing research on
> this
> >>> very issue). It is only in the last 15 years or so that Himba have
> begun
> >>> sending their children to school, and now only in small numbers. The
> >>> Himba
> >>> are very skeptical of schools since, in their opinion, the schools
> don't
> >>> teach their children anything worthwhile. Knowing how to count is
> >>> unimportant to them since although they are non-numerate they are able
> >>> to
> >>> keep track of large herds of cattle because they know each of their
> >>> cattle
> >>> individually and can recognize when one is missing. But what really
> >>> matters
> >>> are things like knowing how to properly honor one's ancestors. If one
> >>> fails
> >>> to do that properly, then then ancestors will cause bad things to
> happen
> >>> to
> >>> oneself. That is much more important than knowing how to count.
> >>>
> >>> Carol, I also agree with your concerns with the methodology of the
> >>> study,
> >>> it may not be reasonable to assume that this research is the same as
> the
> >>> Ekman tasks and of-course it is a Western-type task (but one might
> argue
> >>> that it is less so than the Ekman tasks since it is more open,
> >>> arguable).
> >>>
> >>> So Carol, I wonder what conclusions you would draw from your critique.
> >>> Are
> >>> emotions universal?
> >>> I wonder if there is a further possibility that these psychologists are
> >>> missing. Is it possible that "emotions" are not universal in quite a
> >>> different sense? Perhaps that the very category of "emotion" is not
> >>> universal?
> >>>
> >>> I think this research points in that direction - when viewing a picture
> >>> of
> >>> a face, people do not necessarily assume that the person in the picture
> >>> is
> >>> "emoting". I assume that this would be true among Westerners as well,
> >>> but
> >>> that possibility doesn't present itself in the research methodology
> >>> since
> >>> Westerners are asked "what emotion is this?" The task is already
> defined
> >>> by
> >>> the domain called "emotion" (with which they are already very
> familiar).
> >>>
> >>> Anthropologists have done great work to show the problems with taking
> >>> Western defined domains into non-Western contexts (e.g. the domain of
> >>> "kinship" - David Schneider, the domain of "color" - John Lucy). The
> >>> argument is that even though this research turns up results that seem
> to
> >>> suggest that the domains are real even in non-Western contexts, the
> >>> findings are plagued by the fact that they assume these domains and
> >>> force
> >>> these non-Western subjects into choosing within the pre-defined domain.
> >>>
> >>> But then again, perhaps "emotion" is a universal category?
> >>> -greg
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 7:55 AM, Carol Macdonald <carolmacdon@gmail.com
> >>>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Well Mike
> >>>>
> >>>> I am here working in Namibia for the year, and I would like to know
> >>>> where
> >>>> these Himba people are.  I mean the ones referred to in the article: I
> >>>> am
> >>>> not sure they are *so *isolated - they are well recognised as one of
> >>>> the
> >>>> language groups.  And I think there is also an elephant in the room
> >>>> here.
> >>>> This is a western-type task, and Luria would have been quick to point
> >>>>
> >>> that
> >>>
> >>>> out. What makes this woman think that this task would be the
> equivalent
> >>>>
> >>> to
> >>>
> >>>> the others.
> >>>>
> >>>> Just a couple of basic principles to cast a small aspersion on this
> >>>> research.
> >>>>
> >>>> Carol
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 4 May 2014 14:16, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Perhaps of interest
> >>>>> mike
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> http://www.psypost.org/2014/03/the-six-universal-facial-expressions-are-not-universal-cross-cultural-study-shows-23471
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Carol A  Macdonald Ph D (Edin)
> >>>> Developmental psycholinguist
> >>>> Academic, Researcher,  and Editor
> >>>> Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> >>> Assistant Professor
> >>> Department of Anthropology
> >>> 883 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> >>> Brigham Young University
> >>> Provo, UT 84602
> >>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Dr. Elinami Swai
> Senior Lecturer
> Associate Dean
> Coordinator, Postgraduate Studies
> Faculty of Education
> Open University of Tanzania
> P.O.Box 23409
> Dar-Es-Salaam
> Tell:255-022-2668992/2668820/2668445/26687455
>  Fax:022-2668759
> Cell: (255) 076-722-8353; (255) 068-722-8353
> http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Womens-Empowerment-Africa-Dislocation/dp/
> 0230102484
>         ...this faith will still deliver
>         If you live it first to last
>         Not everything which blooms must
>         wither.
>         Not all that was is past
>



-- 
Carol A  Macdonald Ph D (Edin)
Developmental psycholinguist
Academic, Researcher,  and Editor
Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa