Is the blind man's stick mediating his actions in the world, even when he is meeting no obstacles so that he "see right through it"? When culture is sufficiently appropriated/internalized so that we "see right through it" do we say that culture no longer mediates our experience of the world? Here is what Michael Roth wrote about the issue, a while back. His view. mike On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 9:53 AM, Dr. Paul C. Mocombe <pmocombe@mocombeian.com > wrote: > Michael, > > Your example bears witness to the three stances, ready-to-hand, > unready-to-hand, and present-at-hand, of Dasein highlighted by heidegger > > > Dr. Paul C. Mocombe > President > The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc. > www.mocombeian.com > www.readingroomcurriculum.com > www.paulcmocombe.info > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: "Glassman, Michael" > Date:04/01/2014 12:31 PM (GMT-05:00) > To: lchcmike@gmail.com,"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: vygotsky's theory and symbolic interactionism > > Mike, > > I wonder about the issue of tools. If something is use unconsciously, > without overt awareness of its implications, is it really a tool. I think > of labels as being used certainly in the development of small groups as > overt tools of power and control, but also in larger societies in ways that > individuals are not even aware of. It is sort of like, when riding a > bicycle we understand the tires as tools driving us forward. But what > about the grooves in the back path that we naturally fall into, that take > us in a particular direction without us even realizing that this is > happening to us. Can we say we are manipulated by those grooves? Are they > really tools? We don't even realize the grooves are there until someone > yells out "where are you going" and we realize the grooves have been > controlling our behavioral trajectory. > > I don't know. I feel like this bears some relationship to Sylvia > Scribners' three epochs of human history (am I remembering this right?) or > perhaps Paul's ideas on sub-atomic particles which is fascinating but I am > having a hard time processing. > > Michael > ________________________________________ > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] > on behalf of mike cole [lchcmike@gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 11:27 AM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: vygotsky's theory and symbolic interactionism > > Michael/Paul--- Wouldn't Vygotsky say, invoking the notion of dual > stimulation, that if you mediate your action through a label (a cultural > artifact par excellance) you not only act differently toward the other but > are yourself changed (in fact, more or less literally, your position with > respect to the other is changed) as you subordinate yourself to this "tool" > and control yourself "from the outside" ?? > > Greg has been writing about positioning and labelling. > > Vis a vis symbolic interactionism. Kenneth Burke seems to me a productive > person to think with. See below. > > mike > > mike > > > On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 7:24 AM, Dr. Paul C. Mocombe < > pmocombe@mocombeian.com > > wrote: > > > Hi michael...yes I have checked into labeling theory...it is in doing so > > that I cam across the similarities between vygotsky and mead > > > > > > Dr. Paul C. Mocombe > > President > > The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc. > > www.mocombeian.com > > www.readingroomcurriculum.com > > www.paulcmocombe.info > > > > <div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: "Glassman, > > Michael" <glassman.13@osu.edu> </div><div>Date:04/01/2014 9:08 AM > > (GMT-05:00) </div><div>To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" < > > xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> </div><div>Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: vygotsky's > > theory and symbolic interactionism </div><div> > > </div>Paul, > > > > I think your view of symbolic interactionism (as related to Mead) as > being > > a tool of power and domination is more reflective of Mead's theory than > you > > might think. Have you looked at labeling theory? Also a trajectory > taken > > by Mead's students which seems pretty close to what you want to day. I'm > > not sure what role Vygotsky would play in this. > > > > Michael > > ________________________________________ > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] > > on behalf of Dr. Paul C. Mocombe [pmocombe@mocombeian.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 5:58 AM > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity; Mike Cole > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: vygotsky's theory and symbolic interactionism > > > > At the heart of vygotsky's and mead's work is hegels master/slave > > dialectic as they apply it to the constitution of identity, I.e. > > Consciousness...As though there is no consciousness/identity prior to > > socialization via language and symbolic interaction. This is similar to > > the identitarian logic of frankfurt school logician theodor adorno. I > have > > a problem with that as I view language and symbolic interaction as always > > an element of power and domination. In essence my research question is, > > "is there a sui generis consciousness that exist prior to > > socialization/domination by symbols and language. Haitian metaphysics > says > > yes...it exists at the subatomic particle level and is just as real as > the > > i and me of language and symbolic interaction. Zora Neale hurston in her > > ethnographic field work in haiti was attempting to theorize about this in > > her literature...it is the essence of who we are. I may have to go into > > the realm of physics to make sense of this metaphysical logic. > > > > > > Dr. Paul C. Mocombe > > President > > The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc. > > www.mocombeian.com > > www.readingroomcurriculum.com > > www.paulcmocombe.info > > > > <div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: Greg Thompson < > > greg.a.thompson@gmail.com> </div><div>Date:03/31/2014 11:53 PM > > (GMT-05:00) </div><div>To: Mike Cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>,"eXtended > Mind, > > Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> </div><div>Subject: > [Xmca-l] > > Re: vygotsky's theory and symbolic interactionism </div><div> > > </div>Paul, > > And another piece you might be interested in: > > Winter, J. A. and Goldfield, E. C. (1991), Caregiver-Child Interaction in > > the Development of Self: The Contributions of Vygotsky, Bruner, and Kaye > to > > Mead's Theory. Symbolic Interaction, 14: 433-447. > > doi: 10.1525/si.1991.14.4.433 > > > > I suspect a Hegelian/Marxian root is shared between Vygotsky and Mead. > Mead > > said at one point that his social psychology was an attempt to do what > > Hegel did, with the hopes that it would be "less incorrigible." I have > the > > exact quote somewhere if you're interested. > > > > The Vygotsky-Hegel connections have been much debated here on XMCA, but > it > > seems that there is good reason to think that Vygotsky would have been > > influenced by Hegel, whether directly or indirectly (quick duck - I think > > they'll be some words flying soon in defense of one side or the other of > > this argument...). > > > > I'm interested in this intersection as well, more in terms of links and > > complementarities with Goffman and Vygotsky, but I'm happy to chat about > > the Mead/Vygotsky link. > > > > -greg > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 5:53 PM, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Anne Edwards has an article on this topic in *The Cambridge Companion > to > > > Vygotsky". > > > > > > I have inquired of Anne, and would of anyone interested, to understand > > > where the concept of culture appears in the Meadian framework. > > > > > > mike > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 1:09 PM, Dr. Paul C. Mocombe < > > > pmocombe@mocombeian.com> wrote: > > > > > > > I am working on a paper comparing and contrasting george herbert > mead's > > > > symbolic interactionism with > > > > vygotsky's theory....any suggestions anyone? > > > > > > > > Dr. Paul C. Mocombe > > > > President > > > > The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc. > > > > www.mocombeian.com > > > > www.readingroomcurriculum.com > > > > www.paulcmocombe.info > > > > > > > > Race and Class Distinctions within Black Communities > > > > www.routledge.com/9780415714372 > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > > Assistant Professor > > Department of Anthropology > > 883 Spencer W. Kimball Tower > > Brigham Young University > > Provo, UT 84602 > > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
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