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Re: [xmca] Polls are closed: Manfred Holodynsk's article is choice



Hi Helena,

Which point are you referring to? There have been so many!

Martin

On Mar 27, 2013, at 1:13 PM, Helena Worthen <helenaworthen@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello -- Exactly my point in my MCA article on using AT to study work.
> 
> Helena Worthen
> Hworthen@illinois.edu
> 
> On 3/22/13 8:40 AM, "Holodynski, Manfred"
> <manfred.holodynski@uni-muenster.de> wrote:
> 
>> Dear colleagues,
>> 
>> thank you very much for all your valued comments on my article. There are
>> a lot of aspects already discussed and I have some difficulties to follow
>> all lines of argumentation. Therefore, I would like to answer to the
>> following:
>> 
>> 1. Emotions as psychological function within the macrostructure of
>> activity.
>> 
>> As Andy claims it I get my Activity Theory from AN Leont'ev and I focused
>> especially on his concept of macrostructure of activity and its levels of
>> activity that is related to motives, actions that are related to goals
>> and operations that are related to the conditions under which an action
>> is given. And Andy gets precisely to the heart of it when he stated that
>> my article needs to be read with attention to motivation and how the
>> macrostructure of an activity is related to the motives and goals of an
>> individual. One activity can be realized by different actions, and one
>> action can realize different activities.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> May I quote Andy's words:
>> 
>> " Because motives are not given to immediate perception; they have to be
>> inferred/learnt. Emotional expression and experience signal the success,
>> failure, frustration, expectation, etc. of goals and motives for both
>> participant/observers and the individual subject themself, emotion is
>> tied up with motives and goals and therefore with the structure of an
>> activity. One and the same action could be part of different ""actions
>> activities (!) (MH)"". It is the emotions which signal (internally and
>> externally) the success, etc., etc., that is, in an action's furthering
>> an activity, and it is this which makes manifest and actual that
>> connection between action and activity, for both the observer/participant
>> and the individual subject.
>> 
>> So there is no metaphysics here. No hypothetical "states of mind", or
>> intelligent infants, etc."
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> a) Take the example of the opening of the window. That's the behavior.
>> What's the goal?
>> 
>> b) Imagine the person is a leader and opens the window in order to greet
>> his followers and to hold a speech. That's the goal. What is the activity?
>> 
>> c) If one look at the circumstances one can derive that the speech is a
>> part of a political activity in order to celebrate the election victory.
>> So, if the leader also feels pride and enthusiasm about the victory there
>> is coincidence between the publically assigned meaning and the personally
>> felt sense of the situation. However, it may also be possible that he
>> doesn't feel pride but a great burden and he personally feels to be
>> overloaded with the duties and future expectations. Then the societal
>> meaning assigned by the followers to this situation and the personal
>> sense assigned by the leader himself are not congruent. The leader framed
>> this situation under an achievement perspective whether he is able to
>> fulfill the leadership.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> But, note when we talk about actions and activity, then we speak about an
>> advanced level of activity e.g. in children or adults, but not in infants
>> who start to have intentions but still not a mental image of a future
>> state of affairs.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 2. Differentiation between the basic level in infants and advanced level
>> in older children:
>> 
>> - A young infant has not already established a goal-driven level of
>> actions. In the first weeks one can observe the acquisition of first
>> operations and of first expectations what should happen. But these
>> expectations are not yet represented as a mental image about the desired
>> future states. This is the product of the acquisition of a sign system
>> which enables the person to evoke and  imagine a future state in the here
>> and now and to start to strive for it. And for this starting point, not
>> only to imagine different future states, but also to select one of them
>> and to start to strive for it, emotional processes come into play that
>> color one of the imagined future state e.g. in a state worth striving for
>> and that mobilize the executive power to start striving for it.
>> 
>> However, the ability to form such notions of goals and to transform them
>> into actions is not something that occurs automatically. It emerges in a
>> long-drawn ontogenetic learning process in which the attainment of goals
>> through actions is tried, tested, and increasingly optimized. Older
>> children are
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> So, for an understanding of my emotion concept the macrostructure of an
>> activity is very decisive because I embedded emotions as a specific
>> psychological function within the macrostructure of an activity.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Manfred
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Prof. Dr. Manfred Holodynski
>> 
>> Institut für Psychologie in Bildung und Erziehung
>> 
>> Westfälische Wilhelms-Universität Münster
>> 
>> Fliednerstr. 21
>> 
>> D-48149 Münster
>> 
>> +49-(0)-251-83-34311
>> 
>> +49-(0)-251-83-34310 (Sekretariat)
>> 
>> +49-(0)-251-83-34314 (Fax)
>> 
>> http://wwwpsy.uni-muenster.de/Psychologie.inst5/AEHolodynski/index.html
>> 
>> manfred.holodynski@uni-muenster.de
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: Andy Blunden [mailto:ablunden@mira.net]
>> Gesendet: Freitag, 22. März 2013 04:13
>> An: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>> Cc: Holodynski, Manfred
>> Betreff: Re: Polls are closed: Manfred Holodynsk's article is choice
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Mike, Manfred gets his Activity Theory from AN Leontyev, rather than
>> Engestrom's "systems of activity."
>> 
>> So actions and activities are defined by their goals and motives. So
>> Manfred's article needs to be read with attention to motivation and how
>> the structure of an activity is related to motives and goals. Because
>> motives are not given to immediate perception; they have to be
>> inferred/learnt. Emotional expression and experience signal the success,
>> failure, frustration, expectation, etc. of goals and motives for both
>> participant/observers and the individual subject themself, emotion is
>> tied up with motives and goals and therefore with the structure of an
>> activity. One and the same action could be part of different actions. It
>> is the emotions which signal (internally and externally) the success,
>> etc., etc., that is, in an action's furthering an activity, and it is
>> this which makes manifest and actual that connection between action and
>> activity, for both the observer/participant and the individual subject.
>> 
>> So there is no metaphysics here. No hypothetical "states of mind", or
>> intelligent infants, etc.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> It's all in there.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Andy
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> mike cole wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Andy - and here I was wondering why operation/action/activity were
>> 
>>> not prominent in Manfred's article. Where does he lay out the views in
>> 
>>> this note? Am I reading too superficially as usual? Seems important
>> 
>>> for me to get clear about!
>> 
>>> Mike
>> 
>>> 
>> 
>>> On Thursday, March 21, 2013, Andy Blunden wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>> 
>>>    Think of your illustration,Martin, about whether, in opening the
>> 
>>>    window, you were acting as a technician or moral leader. I.e., the
>> 
>>>    meaning of the action lies in the activity of which it is a part,
>> 
>>>    which is not immediately given. Manfred does not refer this to
>> 
>>>    "intention" or "belief". Manfred is quite specific that the
>> 
>>>    signalising and self-perception of an action in relation to an
>> 
>>>    activity - i.e., an action's being of this and not that activity -
>> 
>>>    is a function played by emotion. Concepts like internal state and
>> 
>>>    intention are derivative from operation/action/activity, not
>> 
>>>    fundamental.
>> 
>>> 
>> 
>>>    Andy
>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 
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