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Re: [xmca] "Rising to the concrete"



Thanks for the extra connections, Peg. I'll track them down and perhaps we
can return to Sayeki's work if people find it useful.

mike

On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Peg Griffin <peg.griffin@att.net> wrote:

> There are some recent studies of PM (physical manipulation) and CM
> (computer manipulation) and IM (imaginary manipulation) that might be
> interesting to consider here, Mike and Andy ( more the studies themselves
> than the framework/background that motivate them.)
>
> Here's the general issue and some references:
> Kids who read sometimes don't comprehend.
> Telling them to visualize or imagine (IM) as a comprehension strategy is
> like telling a sad person to be happy. They don't really see what it means
> to go about that.
> But, if they learn to do PM or CM while reading some passages and then are
> advised to do the same but without the physical objects or the interactive
> computer objects (so it is IM), they can then do the IM and even do it on
> new passages they never did any PM or CM on. It works on narrative and
> expository passages.
> Glenberg, A.M., Goldberg, A. B. & Zhu, X. (2011)  Improving early reading
> comprehension using embodied CAI. Instructional Sciences, 39(1), 27–39.
> Glenberg, A.M., Willford, J., Gibson, B., Goldberg, A. B. & Zhu, X.
> (2011). Improving reading to improve math. Scientific Studies of Reading.
> DOI: 10.1080/10888438.2011.564245
> Glenberg, A.M., Sato, M. & Cattaneo, L.  (2011).  Use-induced motor
> plasticity affects the processing of abstract and concrete language.
>  Current Biology, 18(7), R290-291
>
> It's reminiscent of our marshmallow simulations of those genetically
> primary Pond problems, huh, Mike?
> And here is one older piece along the same lines that might be interesting
> to look at – the abstract starts this way: “This article explores the
> nature of the conceptual knowledge retrieved when people use words to think
> about objects. Suppose that conceptual knowledge is used to simulate and
> guide action in the world.”
> Borghi, A. M., Glenberg, A. M. &. Kaschak, M. P. (2004). Putting words in
> perspective.  Memory and Cognition.  32 (6), 863-873Peg
>
> --- On Wed, 8/15/12, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
>
>
> From: Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>
> Subject: Re: [xmca] "Rising to the concrete"
> To: lchcmike@gmail.com
> Cc: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Date: Wednesday, August 15, 2012, 9:21 PM
>
>
>
> As I see it Mike, the reason that a set-up which facilitates the subject
> imaginatively putting themselves into the object, leads to quicker solution
> of the problem because it mobilises the highly developed sense we have of
> our own body. Although wrong about much else, I think Lakoff was right
> about the central place of spatial and other visceral metaphors lying at
> the root of our ability to understand things, including concept formation
> and the formation of language. Likewise, I think the whole range of social
> feelings we have - shame, fear of disapproval, desire for recognition,
> respect for norms of behaviour, etc., as well as knowledge of the various
> objects which populate our social world, key in our understanding of
> concepts which have an essentially social existence. Just as my feet and
> shoulders twitch when I watch a tennis match, I think similar but deeper
> processes are going on when I recognise or think about things which are
> conceptualised in a
>  particular way in the social environment I am in. If this is the kind of
> thing you have in mind, then I believe I understand you. The same
> considerations also engage the concepts of abstract and concrete, but you
> seemed to be hinting at a more immediate connection which at the moment is
> just escaping me.
>
> Perhaps you could explain?
>
> Andy
>
> mike cole wrote:
> Thanks for posting the link to the paper, Andy.
>
>
> I believe that a starting point is to ask the following question(s):
>
>
> 1. What is it that accounts for the increase in time to carry out a mental
> rotation for the plain
> conglomeration of blocks?
>
>
> 2. Whatever the process is, why is it that the amount of rotation is
> irrelevant if the figure has
> a schematic face/head on it in a place where it appears person-like?
>
>
> Maybe all the concrete is between my ears.
> mike
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 8:27 AM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
>
> http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Histarch/ap81v3n2.PDF p.16
>
> Mike, I also, at first had the same problem with motorscooter indicator,
> and I used a different but similar tactic to overcome it. Also, as a civil
> engineer I learnt that it was essential to imagine yourself as the building
> in order to nknow where the stresses would be and effectively design it,
> and most difficult problems, up to the point of calculations could be
> solved this way.
>
> But ... :) ... I can't see what this has to do with abstract and concrete.
> Can you explain?
>
>
> Andy
>
> mike cole wrote:
>
> A wonderful paper by Yutaka Sayeki (with two key figures reversed, but it
> is obvious where the mistake was made when you read it) has an example of
> what I take to be almost a "measure" of rising to the concrete (see also
> Davydov's ideas on the topic).
>
> Its part of a special issue of the newsletter. Accessible to anyone at
> lchc.ucsd.edu <http://lchc.ucsd.edu>
>
> *
>
> Volume 3, Number 2 April 1981
>
> *
>
> AZUMA, Hiroshi: /A Note on Cross-Cultural Study/
>
> INAGAKI, Kayoko: /Facilitation of Knowledge Integration through /
>
> /Classroom Discussion/
>
> KASHIWAGI, Keiko: /Note on the Socialization Processes in Japan/
>
> HATANO, Giyoo, KUHARA, Keiko, and AKIYAMA, Michael: /Kanji Help /
>
> /Readers of Japanese Infer the Meaning of Unfamiliar Words/
>
> SAITO, Hirofumi/: Toward Comparative Studies in Reading Kanji and /
>
> /Kana/
>
> SAYEKI, Yutaka: /"Body Analogy" and the Cognition of Rotated Figures/
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 5:24 AM, Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com<mailto:
> huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     On 15 August 2012 13:01, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net
>     <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
>
>     > Well, these issues are not going to be solved in 5 minutes, Huw.
>     Analog
>     > and digital belong to a completely different frame than the
>     concepts of
>     > abstract/concrete and general/universal which I think Greg asked
>     about
>     > initially.
>     >
>
>     Analog was an elaboration.  This point is not necessary to resolve
>     "universal" in the Lenin quote.
>
>     Huw
>
>
>     >
>     > Let me be brief then. Ilyenkov famously makes the point that
>     (exchange)
>     > value is an ideal, but it is also real. The market implements a
>     process of
>     > abstracting the value of commodities but it is the very
>     concreteness of the
>     > market which makes that process possible.
>
>     Democracy is an ideal which really motivates millions of people and
>     > underpins constitutional governments.
>     >
>
>     > Universal suffrage allows that insane people, criminals and
>     children do
>     > not vote. And what is more, when the President is elected, only
>     the votes
>     > of 51% count. (There are of course plenty of "Ah, but ..."s
>     about this, but
>     > this is what is meant by the difference between the general and the
>     > universal.)
>     >
>     > http://www.marxists.org/**reference/archive/hegel/works/**
>     >
>     sl/slsubjec.htm#SL163n1b<
> http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/sl/slsubjec.htm#SL163n1b
> >
>     >
>     > Andy
>     >
>     >
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>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
>
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> --
>
>
> *Andy Blunden*
> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
>
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