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Re: [xmca] Reflective Meanings

Rod, David, Peter

The relationship between perezhivanie and reflecting on  *second hand*
experience.  How does this relationship manifest?  What  sequences  unfold
in this process.
 Rod, a year ago you recommended a book by V. Reddy who was exploring the
negotiation of feelings as well as understandings within what is referred
to as primary intersubjectivity developing within  2nd person communicative

 I recently came across this 6 page summary of V. Reddy's *2nd person*
perspective on lived experience as the basic process from which emerges the
derived 3rd person perspectives which are *borrowing* the processes
previously lived through within  2nd person engagements.
The article uses charts which clearly distinguish her perspective from more
cognitively oriented accounts

>From Reddy's perspective, these borrowed 2nd person processes are
profoundly transformed within language games [Wittgenstein's term] acquired
as culturally informed skilled practices expressing the giving
of reasons.  Reddy posits the skill of offering justifications in the 3rd
person as derived from 2nd person *I-YOU* encounters previously lived
through. Derived justifications  borrow the content from 2nd person lived
through experiences and use this derived content within the activity of
 giving reasons.

I also noticed she posits two *basic* movements within our emotional 2nd
person engagements: *hiding* & *revealing* our selves. As I understand
Reddy's position these basic intersubjective orientations continue to play
out  within more complex cultural-historical  informed engagements.
Reddy's 2nd person perspective offers one possible approach into the
relationship between
perhezivanie and activity.


On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 4:45 AM, Rod Parker-Rees <
R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk> wrote:

> Many thanks for this, David - a really valuable clarification of  the
> relationship between  perezhivanie and activity. I wonder what you would
> have to say about the extent to which your second  type of reflection is
>  actually  a culturally mediated process of mediation. In other words,
>  when we practise the activity of reflecting on a 'second-hand' experience,
> in order to colour it with the  'body and vitality' of our  own spontaneous
> concepts, are we 'borrowing' processes which we have picked up, absorbed or
> internalised from our  experiences of engaging with others (and negotiating
> the sharing of feelings as well as understandings)?  When we reflect in
> tranquility on observed second hand (second body) experiences do we not
> have to draw on  internalised sociocultural processes to be able to do this?
> All the best,
> Rod
> ________________________________________
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On Behalf
> Of David Kellogg [vaughndogblack@yahoo.com]
> Sent: 18 March 2012 03:33
> To: xmca
> Subject: [xmca] Reflective Meanings
> We have been worrying about how to correctly render the word "переживаний"
> in Korean, and above all how to link it to "activity" (because it is clear
> to me that Vygotsky saw the one as a reflection upon the other). At the
> same time, I have been following the news from Syria, where I witnessed, in
> the early nineteen eighties, a similar bloody uprising against the current
> leader's father.
> It has been estimated that by the time a child is twelve or thirteen years
> old the child has witnessed, on television, several hundred, possibly many
> thousands, of simulated murders. We didn't have a television when I was a
> kid, but when I first witnessed real murders as a twenty-year-old I
> remember thinking that it was "like a movie".
> Of course, when you say that, what it means is that you are undergoing the
> visual experience of observing something but that the acutal переживаний,
> the lived experience or the feeling of what is happening to you, is somehow
> missing. It means almost the same thing as when you say that something is a
> dream (I still dream a lot about Syria, and sometimes I dream things that
> are very disturbing, but I know that the dreams feel very different from
> the way the reality felt).
> Here, it seems to me, we have an almost complete contrast of the two
> meanings of reflection. For on the one hand, the scene that you see before
> your eyes is a clear reflection; when you say that you feel like a
> particularly gruesome or traumatic scene is like a movie or like a dream,
> you do not in any way have the sense of watching a movie or dreaming. What
> you mean is that you are seeing the sights but not feeling the feelings of
> what happens to you; you are lacking the переживаний.
> And it seems to me that there are two ways to interpret that lack that
> corresond to the two meanings of the word "reflection". One is to say that
> you are not feeling and thinking the experience because you are too busy
> directly experiencing it, reflecting it like a mirror or a TV screen or a
> flickering image on the back of your dreaming eyelids.
> But the other is that you are not participating in the experience, and
> that your first reaction is that you yourself are neither the murderer nor
> the murdered one. In other words, it is an experience, but it is not an
> activity. And an experience that is not an activity is not a lived
> experience: it is like a movie or like a dream.
> It's that SECOND meaning of reflection, which I am almost sure really is a
> type of activity, even though it involves no actions and only indirectly
> involves verbal meanings, that converts an experience which is not an
> activity, into переживаний, or what Wordsworth would call emotion reflected
> upon in tranquility.
> David Kellogg
> Hankuk University of Foreign Studies
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