Re: [xmca] Death and dying

[Christine Schweighart <schweighartc@gmail.com>]

Hi Greg ,
 I'm going to watch the film showing next week - but I thought that the
quote you make was spoken by Von Glaserfeld - and he was saying that he
sometimes 'caught himself' - as exception from the way he thinks in his
world- thinking about 'things': when his radical constructivism is to not
do so (i.e that which is 'named as 'thing' is in process and dynamic
construction - in relation). e.g Archives de Psychologie vol531985.
 he drew upon Vico and in that article gives an explication of 'Vorstellung
- which I happens to be talking about with someone else this week and
commented:

Mention of Vico brought semblances of others’ writings on
Goethe/Hegel/Marx, and looking up Vico in the Stanford Encyclopedia of
Philosophy, the lineage goes back further, and also forward to Croce – who
was critiqued by Gramsci. The way von glaserfeld brought out the notion of
Vorstellung to explicate Simmel’s meaning, makes central a reading ‘of an
idea’ as an imaginative act, rather than an ‘iconic replica’  representation
of some*thing* in the world.  He relates the importance of this distinction
to orient towards  ‘preference’ in form of thinking arising through its
functioning in the context in which they arise – or their ‘retention’
‘insofar as they turn out to be *viable* in the contexts of the organism’s
activities’

He is critiquing separation of subject and object and draws upon Vico's
'pleasing relations' in a way of meaningful abstraction.
Here's the flyer clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7hOMAGEB7Ko

Christine.


On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 7:38 PM, Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>wrote:

> There is a flipside to "gaps" that suggests that a gapless world. This
> position is nicely captured by Gregory Bateson (please forgive my
> transcription by intonation unit - Bateson's prose is hard to capture, but
> see link below for original):
>
> "The nature of
>
> the world in which I live
>
> and in which I wish you lived -
>
> all of you -
>
> and all the time -
>
> but even I don't live in it all the time.
>
> (solemnly) There are times,
>
> when I catch myself believing
>
> that there is such a thing as something
>
> which is separate from something else."
>
> And linking back to General Semantics (and Corey Anton is both affiliated
> with General Semantics and has written much on Bateson), Bateson was
> influenced by Korzybski (see Bateson's Korzybski memorial lecture at:
>
> http://www.generalsemantics.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/gsb-37-bateson.pdf
> and
> Bateson's quote above is taken from a blog announcing the new biographical
> movie of GB by Nora Bateson, the website can be seen at:
> http://www.bullfrogfilms.com/catalog/emind.html).
> And linking further back to Korzybski's view of why things go wrong in the
> world, Bateson writes that:
>
> "The major problems in the world are the result of the difference between
> how nature works and the way people think."
>
> It would seem that Bateson is pointing to gap-filling as the problem that
> creates the mismatch between word and world. Does that seem about right to
> others? Is there a tension here between the gap filling that Etienne and
> Mike describe as something that we do all the time and what Bateson seems
> to be suggesting about a (preferred) gapless world? Am I headed in endless
> circles here or is there an interesting question at this particular
> intersection? Or is my way of linking both of these positions filling in
> (or not) too many gaps?
>
> Thoughts?
> -greg
>
> p.s. C.S. Peirce, may have articulated a fuller conception in his notion of
> "synechism," but Bateson's is certainly more comprehensible and artful.
> Peirce's vision is a lot more difficult to take in. But I'd add that he has
> a wonderful notion of "self" that extends beyond the body and beyond life.
> We are "vicinities" "neighborhoods" rather than discretely bounded bodies.
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 6:47 AM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Anthony
> >
> > The topic of death and the social formation of mind seems to be the
> > ultimate form of "gap & gap filling" which gives meaning to life. I'm
> > reading an article by Corey Anton titled "Beyond Theoretical Ethics:
> > Bakhtinian Anti-Theoreticism" [in Human Studies volume 24, pages 211-225;
> > 2001] This is what Corey has to say about death and our unique
> > once-occurant dwelling in the world.
> >
> > "The position that I am trying to make clear is that the human 'in
> general'
> > does not factually exist and that ethical considerations commonly posit a
> > general human: they posit a 'someone' who is ACTUALLY no one.  In this
> > regard, their universality implicitly suggets that people are basically
> > interchangeable or not non-replaceable - not uniquely held by their place
> > in existence.  The 'theoretical world is obtained through an essential
> and
> > fundamental abstraction from the factor of my unique being and from the
> > moral sense of that fact - AS IF I did not exist' (Bahktin).  This
> > theoretical world can deeply mislead, for I never do not exist in my
> life;
> > I am never unnecessary or irrelevant, and it is only theoretical positing
> > that can make this seem to be so. (Leder) suggests that one's lived body
> '
> > is never just an object in the world but that very medium whereby our
> world
> > comes into being.'  Thus, I may, in one sense, be simply one person among
> > other persons in the world that will go on without me AFTER MY DEATH.
>  And
> > yet, I am, for me, that person who is never not there, that person who
> > somehow is ALWAYS co-given along with the world, and that person whose
> > world falls out of existence WITH MY DEATH. [page 215]
> >
> > Anthony, Corey is pointing to death as the ulimate "gap" and our
> humanness
> > as the process of gap-filling within our once-occurent unique cultural
> > historical existence.  The social formation of mind develops through
> > differentiation and distanciation [gaps] AND the integrating
> [gap-filling]
> > ACTS (including theoretical acts)  of our humanness.
> >
> > Larry
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 5:45 AM, ANTHONY M BARRA <tub80742@temple.edu>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks for the resources, Huw and Andy.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 8:12 AM, Nektarios Alexi
> > > <NEKTARIOS.ALEXI@cdu.edu.au>wrote:
> > >
> > > > Thats an excellent book Huw!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu on behalf of Huw Lloyd
> > > > Sent: Wed 2/1/2012 9:43 PM
> > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] Death and dying
> > > >
> > > > Bakhtin's "Dostoevsky's Poetics" has a few indexed references.
> > > >
> > > > Huw
> > > >
> > > > On 31 January 2012 16:46, ANTHONY M BARRA <tub80742@temple.edu>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I'm looking for Vygostky's, or Vygotskian, words on death and
> dying,
> > > > > especially terms of (but not limited to) "the social formation of
> > > mind,"
> > > > > and "mind extending beyond the skin."
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for any direction or help...
> > > > >
> > > > > Anthony
> > > > > __________________________________________
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>
>
> --
> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> Sanford I. Berman Post-Doctoral Scholar
> Department of Communication
> University of California, San Diego
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