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Re: [xmca] Further reflections on "temporality" and generativity
Mike, Peter, Robert
The question of time scale seems an important aspect of temporality. When
Mike wrote,
referring to potential experiencing is
perhaps another way of tapping into the Zinchenko insistence on the "future
oriented" nature of perception.
I was inferring the temporal relation in the PRESENT moment of perception
[perceptual seeing or hearing] Mike alluded to Zinchenko exploring the
sequence in time that is happening so rapidly that it is outside of
conscious awareness. However, in this very rapid PRESENT moment the
question of "potential" self-experience as ARISING from shared experiences
rather than the reverse concept of self-experience leading to shared
experience was how I understood Mike's question?
Larry
On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 7:50 AM, Robert Lake <boblake@georgiasouthern.edu>wrote:
> *Hi Peter,*
> *I agree with your take on LSV's interest in "constructing positive social
> futures"* . Dot Robbins (2011) calls this height psychology as opposed to a
> Freudian emphasis on depth psychology, which uses the past to look for the
> roots or causes of mental and emotional disorders which leads to a deficit
> view of development. Robbins’ take on Vygotskyian psychology on the other
> hand, “views the heights of potentiality of the individual, also including
> unconscious components; and, the unconscious is viewed as the seat of
> creativity and problem solving. (p.19).
>
> Robbins, D. (2011) Vygotsky’s ZPD interacting with American early childhood
> education. In C.Coreil(Ed).*The X point in education: Where imagination is
> lost.* Jersey City, NJ. New Jersey City University Press.
>
>
> *Robert Lake*
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 5:58 AM, Peter Smagorinsky <smago@uga.edu> wrote:
>
> > Vygotsky's psychology was very future oriented as well, at least as
> > articulated in his volume on defectology. He was highly critical of Freud
> > for anchoring his attention on past experiences rather than constructing
> > positive social futures. LSV's interest in a cultural-historical
> approach,
> > and his emphasis on human development, also made the past and present
> > important as well, of course. p
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> On
> > Behalf Of mike cole
> > Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 7:24 PM
> > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > Subject: Re: [xmca] Further reflections on "temporality" and generativity
> >
> > Larry-- I believe that what you are referring to potential experiencing
> is
> > perhaps another way of tapping into the Zinchenko insistence on the
> "future
> > oriented" nature of perception.
> >
> > mike
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 6:50 PM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Monica, thanks for this appreciation. Yes, at times I also feel like
> > > I'm just chasing my tail. However with the insight that "trying to
> > > figure it all out" is actually just good conversation and fellowship
> > > with both the biologically living and our ancestors who are still
> > > "alive", there is a shift in the quest for "knowing" that is
> > > experienced more like a form of playing.
> > >
> > > I'm also grounded by having a grand daughter Elena, [now 17 months]
> > > who I experience as dancing through life, moving between security
> > > needs and exploratory needs, and I intuitively sense that the "dance"
> > > WE are participating in is moving between security and exploration.
> > > When Elena PAUSES in her explorations, and checks in with mom, dad,
> > > grandma, or grandpa, and then is off again to engage with objects this
> > > PAUSE is foundational for re-orienting to further POTENTIAL exploring
> > > with fascination and delight. THE POTENTIAL EXPERIENCE expressed in
> > > this relational dancing through life is palpable.
> > >
> > > I often wonder, when sharing this lived experience of vitality with
> > > Elena, if there is a deeper truth about our human nature being
> > > expressed in this dance of POTENTIAL existence? As the person and
> > > world become more complex with further development can life remain
> > > playfull as it changes its form and structure? As I'm "chasing my
> > > tail" can I delight in the chase instead of always seeing it as a
> > > struggle? Monica, maybe it requires a great deal of struggle and hard
> > > difficult work to return to this place of playing. I don't know.
> > >
> > > Part of the experience of "chasing my tail" is the recognition that
> > > participating in the dance with my grand daughter may not be
> > > participating in "transforming" the world. My hesitant response is
> > > the practice of dancing with my grand daughter is also developing
> > > knowlege which is phronesis and THIS knowlege can be USED in the
> > > schools I work in and also inform my conversations with others. These
> > > practices, which also USE "techne" and "theory" [other forms of
> > > knowing] are informed by my knowledge gained dancing with my grand
> > daughter.
> > >
> > > Just musings on "chasing my tail"
> > >
> > > Larry
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 1:05 PM, monica.hansen <
> > > monica.hansen@vandals.uidaho.edu> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Larry,
> > > > I like this view or interpretation of writing because it allows for
> > > signs,
> > > > or representations of meaning, to be "real"--that quality being
> > > > shared in the process of communicating--but not fixed. Knowledge or
> > > > ideas have the same quality and should not be confused with actual
> > > > structures in brain, memory, or mind. Structures exist, but they are
> > > > responsible for the experience of making meaning or "knowing". I
> > > > appreciate, as always,
> > > Larry,
> > > > how much you read and carry your references into this discourse.
> > > >
> > > > For some of us it is really interesting trying to figure it all out
> > > > and using different approaches to do so, but you can see how for
> > > > others it is just like a dog chasing its tail.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Monica
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________________
> > > > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] on
> > > behalf
> > > > of Larry Purss [lpscholar2@gmail.com]
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 6:50 AM
> > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > > Subject: [xmca] Further reflections on "temporality" and
> > > > generativity
> > > >
> > > > Mike, and Haydi
> > > >
> > > > The question on activity and reflectivity and its relation to
> > > > temporality is the question Mike posed.
> > > >
> > > > I didn't want to take the focus off Haydi's further elaboration of
> > > > Vasilyk so I'm posting this thought on POTENTIAL EXISTENCE and signs.
> > > from
> > > > Eugene Halton [article is Pragmatic E-Pistols on Greg's post]
> > > > Halton writes,
> > > >
> > > > Signs involve existence but are NOT reducible to existence, for
> > > > their
> > > being
> > > > lies in their being interpreted. in a FUTURE interpretation: in
> > > continuing
> > > > semiosis. So that a SELF or a sign has a REALITY at any GIVEN MOMENT
> > > > as a POTENTIAL EXISTENCE, in Peirce's terms" page 46.
> > > >
> > > > Potential existence, dialogically, as interpreted. This dialogical
> > > > "interpretation" can be DISTINGUISHED and COME INTO EXISTENCE
> > > > through "thinking" [reflecting] or through conversation [reflecting]
> > > > with others [both forms can be encounters with alterity] Writing is
> > > > another form of encountering dialogical alterity to express POTENTIAL
> > existence.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In other words systems and traditions and concepts [cultural
> > > > historical reality] can be USED within the GIVEN MOMENT as signs
> > > > within shared understanding LEADING TO POTENTIAL self-understanding
> > > > ARISING
> > > within
> > > > shared understanding.
> > > >
> > > > Mike & Haydi , this is one possibility of the temporal sequence of
> > > > the lived world expressed within humanness.
> > > >
> > > > Larry
> > > > __________________________________________
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>
>
> --
> *Robert Lake Ed.D.
> *Assistant Professor
> Social Foundations of Education
> Dept. of Curriculum, Foundations, and Reading
> Georgia Southern University
> P. O. Box 8144
> Phone: (912) 478-5125
> Fax: (912) 478-5382
> Statesboro, GA 30460
>
> *Democracy must be born anew in every generation, and education is its
> midwife.*
> *-*John Dewey.
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