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Re: [xmca] speaking of rocks and cathedrals



Well, you will see at the bottom of that page a link to http://www.marxists.org/subject/psychology/works/lektorsky/essay_77.htm which is an article-length presentation of the book. This was included in a marvellous Progress Publishers collection which included Ilyenkov's Concept of the Ideal, and AN Leontyev's "Activity and Consciousness", both also on marxists.org, with 9 other articles.

Could someone read that 1977 article and pull out an important quote?

Andy

mike cole wrote:
Thanks Andy--

It would be really interesting to read jointly, but no idea in the world of how to accomplish that!!
mike

On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 4:51 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:

    Yep.

    http://www.marxists.org/archive/lektorsky/subject-object/index.htm

    Andy
    mike cole wrote:

        Great to have Lektorsky brought into this conversation. I
        wonder, is the
        book widely available in English? Did I miss a link somewhere?
        mike

        On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 11:02 AM, Haydi Zulfei
        <haydizulfei@rocketmail.com
        <mailto:haydizulfei@rocketmail.com>>wrote:

            Overcoming the deep-thinking and worry of the problems of
            the Region ,
            Dear Larry , I came to my study to read anew the once-read
            article sent to
            you and , happy to say , I'm exactly at the point you're
            stationing on page
            22 . Yes , I accept the WHOLE of what V. A . Lektorsky
            says in this article
            and His "Subject,Object,Activity" , a book , indeed .
            Thank you , too , for
            your insistence on finding a way for 'dialogues' .  Haydi
              ( out Net
            problems most of the time ! hope it works ! )




            ________________________________
             From: Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com
            <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>
            To: Haydi Zulfei <haydizulfei@rocketmail.com
            <mailto:haydizulfei@rocketmail.com>>; "eXtended Mind, Culture,
            Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
            Cc: Robert Lake <boblake@georgiasouthern.edu
            <mailto:boblake@georgiasouthern.edu>>
            Sent: Monday, 2 January 2012, 10:02:13
            Subject: Re: [xmca] speaking of rocks and cathedrals


            Robert, I want to agree with you and acknowledge the
            poetic way Haydi
            expressed these relations.

            Haydi, I also am enjoying reading the article on Social
            Being and the
            Human Essence. On page 22 Lektorsky says,

            The self is seen as a system of relations, between myself
            and others.
            Outside of this system of relations, I simply cannot
            exist. I am by my
            nature a DIALOGICAL essence.... This approach gives rise
            to a whole range
            of questions which simply did not exist for Descartes or
            Fichte (they begin
            to emerge with Hegel's Phenomenology of Spirit).  There is
            the problem of
            my Being-for-others, Being-for-myself, and the
            Being-of-others-for-me....
                In my view, introspection should not be conceived as a
            relation of
            someone to something purely INSIDE him - or herself, but
            as a SPECIAL WAY
            of relating oneself to others. Introspection is really
            'EXTRA-spection'.  A
            human being ALWAYS lives on the BOUNDARY between self and
            other.

            Haydi, do you accept the centraity of the QUESTIONS that
            Lektorsky is
            posing as necessary themes to have conversations about???

            I'm going back to reading the article.  The method of written
            composition [the genre] in how David Bakhurst is
            presenting these themes is
            enjoyable as I love listening in on others conversations.

            Haydi thanks for taking the steps into action to respond
            to my reflections
            that come from left-field.

            Larry




            On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 9:17 AM, Haydi Zulfei
            <haydizulfei@rocketmail.com
            <mailto:haydizulfei@rocketmail.com>>
            wrote:

            You are so kind , Robert !!  At times , in my confusion ,
            I don't know how
            to :-)  Encouraging !! Thanks a lot !! I did wish you a
            happy New Year ,
            too .    Haydi

                ________________________________
                From: Robert Lake <boblake@georgiasouthern.edu
                <mailto:boblake@georgiasouthern.edu>>
                To: Haydi Zulfei <haydizulfei@rocketmail.com
                <mailto:haydizulfei@rocketmail.com>>; "eXtended Mind,
                Culture,
            Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
                Sent: Monday, 2 January 2012, 7:47:41

                Subject: Re: [xmca] speaking of rocks and cathedrals


                Wow Havdi!
                Have you written about this in greater detail anywhere?
                If so can you direct me? If not, you need to.
                Happy New Year!
                Robert Lake


                On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 6:04 AM, Haydi Zulfei
                <haydizulfei@rocketmail.com
                <mailto:haydizulfei@rocketmail.com>>
            wrote:
                True Andy !
                    I didn't continue : " The moment the floundering
                    footstep of the IDEAL
            touches the firm GROUND of the 'world of reality' , as to
            its nature , it
            jumps once again in a space of a blink , yearning to unite
            anew with her
            beloved consort fere , the ACTION , towards a re-start of
            another pulse of
            'subjectivity' "

                    ________________________________
                    From: Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net
                    <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
                    To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
                    <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
                    Sent: Sunday, 1 January 2012, 17:58:41
                    Subject: Re: [xmca] speaking of rocks and cathedrals


                    Well, it becomes an ideal I guess.

                    And on that I beg to differ with just one of
                    Haydi's dot points.

                    Haydi said: "Ideal , when reified, is no longer
                    ideal."

                    I would have thought that when an ideal is
                    reified, then it attains the
            most stable of all possible forms of reification. That
            pile of rocks, if
            exumed 2000 years later, may still exhibit the properties
            of a cathedral if
            the thought was put into action by Saint Exupery.
                    For 2012, I guess I look forward to the deepening
                    economic decline of
            Europe and the US putting pressure on China to stimulate
            its domestic
            market, and thereby lend more power to the rising tide of
            resistance among
            ordinary people demanding the rule of law in their
            country. And I would
            dearly like to see Syria join Libya and build something
            worthwhile from the
            ashes of their previous efforts to shake off imperialist
            domination. And it
            would be good to see Iran join the Arab Spring too. And
            keep the US the
            hell out of intervening in that country.
                    Andy

                    mike cole wrote:

                        I want to join the voices for wishing all
                        "present" the best of
            fortune in
                        the new year. We now reach from Invertebrates
                        to God in our modest
                                 explorations of the processes of
                        human development. :))
                                 The following thought came to me in
                        thinking about what ensues if one
                                 accepts the invitation to imagine
                                 what will happen in the next year --
                        what you hope for, what you fear,
            what
                        you could not expect and so
                                 can't think about. It is from St.
                        Exupery.
                                 A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile
                        the moment a single man
            contemplates
                        it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.
                                  Antoine de Saint-Exupery<
            http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/antoinedes161736.html>
                        Its an interesting thought, but "negative" in
                        the sense that it tells
            us
                        what a rock ceases to be but does not
                                 specify what it has become "the
                        moment it a single man contemplates
            it."
                        It seems apt to the discussion.
                                 An awful lot takes place in that moment!
                                 Happy New Year,
                                 mike
                    --
            ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    *Andy Blunden*

                    Joint Editor MCA:
                    http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/18/1

                    Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
                    <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>

                    Book:
                    http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857
                    <http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>


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                --

                Robert Lake  Ed.D.

                Assistant Professor
                Social
                Foundations of Education
                Dept. of Curriculum, Foundations, and
                Reading
                Georgia Southern University
                P. O. Box 8144
                Phone: (912)
                478-5125
                Fax: (912) 478-5382
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                -John Dewey.
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-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    *Andy Blunden*
    Joint Editor MCA: http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/18/1
    Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/ <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
    Book: http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857
    <http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>



--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
Joint Editor MCA: http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/18/1
Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
Book: http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857

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