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FW: [xmca] "Inner Form" of Word, Symmetry, Ivanov Bateson?
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- Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 12:22:14 +0000
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Sorry about the typos - my webmail is 'sticky'. I have been weeding. I would retract the earlier posting.
Subject: RE: [xmca] "Inner Form" of Word, Symmetry, Ivanov Bateson?
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2011 09:48:45 +0000
David, Martin & Vera,
I have copies of T &Language, M in Society, but not the Psychology of Art- which I now want to read and this is why i was appreciative of finding my way to it through participating in this thread. I go to it with a question of what 'art' might be considered as having the same form as - or asymmetry with. I do this with a very spongy notion that changes appear first expressed in artistic movements and can eventually consolidate in scientific conventions later. ( I was thinking of cubo-futurists, I don't know why).
So I can't go to read around this illumination of the statue, but when I read Martin's response I wonder how inner form can be corresponding with meaning of justice, where justice is achieved in a locality - as Martin included for outer form, is not inner form also contextually specific in mediation, with outer and inner corresponding too?
Justice dependent on context, what is translated through the statue is not justice, but might be signifying, symbolic?, of 'dignity of justice' generalising- but then no longer justice at all. ( Going back to an earlier thread - and what is lost in generalising - the families example). This is from my sense of experience of striving to achieve justice within context, which affords or re -mediates, imbuing human dignity. Is this realising in remediation also an inner form? In mercurial flux between relations, yet also in metaphor of 'plasticity'(Huw).
Martin's comment"It is
dependent on context, intended interlocutor, etc. the latter, inner speech
is likely to be a mixture of condensed soundless meanings drawn from several
languages as well as images to be expanded and transformed into a particular
language in its communicative, spoken and written forms
I too have something of a bi-lingual history and have found that many others like me feel some significance in beginning to dream in different spoken languages. In corresponding (to on-going living , as we become aware in our relational domain) movement and dance and touch are soundless - well sounds are not their main value- dance corresponds and both influence each others' form... so asymmetry is in these forms too and figure in 'languaging'. I'll consider inner form of these too when I get to read Psychology of Art.
However I am trying to relate this, still , to what I might contribute to, to refine in achievements such as striving for justice as a form of conserving human dignity etc. and I revisit a methodological framework of enquiry (Checkland's soft systems), and consider the recourse to artistic expression- of whatever form( and the achievement of this happening -especially in workplace settings) and know this not as mirroring, not seeking symmetry. It also reminded me of a comment that stood out for me in the introduction to 'A defence of history and class consciousness tailism and the Dialectic ' verso books 2000.One moment wher John Rees is conveying a paradox he sees Lukacs facing:
"In a world characterised as a realm of 'absolute sinfulness', from where could progress come? From what point on the social horizon could there originate a force capable of leading beyond these two inadequate alternatives? Lukacs had no answer to these questions. And, finding no social force or political strategy equal to the task, his mind turned to artistic and ethical responses. Perhaps brief moments of artistic experience might overcome the alienation from modern political forms. perhaps there might be an ethical stance that would allow one to withstand the degrading experience of living in a society where corruption was not simply excess but a fundamental principle of life. Lukacs himself described this attitude as 'romantic anti-capitalism'. It is from this pre-war period that two works of cultural criticism date, 'The Soul and its Forms'1911 and 'The theory of the Novel' 1916" p. 4
Which has some spiritual if not religious overlap ( I don't know where Mike's question about religion came from I have only heard mention of Shpet in the discussion of this). In this quote the 'one' is somehow inadequate, in local context this is simultanously shared in that overcoming is dialogic in between and not possible in any 'one' alone. Overcoming is also not there somehow to be realised a priori in any path dependent way.
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