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Re: [xmca] Kozulin & Feuerstein and the mediated learning paradigm



Larry
Here at my university there was a unit dedicated to MLE and IE and I saw a
video of the head.  He certainly wasn't teaching metacognitive strategies,
but with a mix of very positive affect and affirmation and leading gestures
and cues was getting a great deal from/with a small child. I think that
Feuerstein is not good on theory--does apples and pears, but the application
is great and the training intensive.
Carol
On 25 January 2011 18:23, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:

> Carol
>
> I intuitively share your perspective not to teach "metacognition" as a
> separate topic but Alex Kozulin and Feuerstein seem to take another
> perspective when considering REMEDIAL instruction.  I respect Kozulin's
> deep
> insights as a scholar so thought it a topic worth exploring. Through the
> dialectic of different perspectives  clarity may shine a few rays through
> the clouds.
>
> Larry.
>
> On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 10:59 PM, Carol Macdonald <carolmacdon@gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Larry
> >
> > It's not a good idea to teach metacognitive strategies on their own. They
> > should emerge from content learning, so there is a context for them. As
> you
> > can see, the less able students are unable to recognise the occasions for
> > the use of the metacognitive strategies, and don't recognisie that their
> > cognitive strategies have led them into error. So metacogntition fails to
> > kick in when there is cognitive failure. It is precisely these students
> > that
> > need to be led through the ZPD.  As I have said before, metacognitive
> > strategy teaching has been very exciting for educational psychologists,
> and
> > there is even a  journal called "Metacognition",  but I totally fail to
> > share their enthusiasm--for one thing, nobody has done a longitudinal
> study
> > on this type of teaching. (Actually, we should share this judgement--has
> > anyone done a longitudinal study about the effects of leading learning
> > through the ZPD?)
> >
> > Carol
> >  On 25 January 2011 03:39, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > I know from this CHAT list  that Kozulin and Feuerstein are not
> accurate
> > in
> > > their assessment of the CHAT perspective.  The broader question I was
> > > asking,  "Is it useful or helpful to try to "teach" basic cognitive
> > > prerequisites or should those prerequisites be built into subject
> matter
> > > content?" Mike, I  taught IE 20 years ago and I consider the person who
> > > gained the most from this activity was myself as I became more aware of
> > > basic cognitive prerequisites.  But I always thought these basic
> > processes
> > > could be incorporated into other school activities such as math or
> > language
> > > arts.  IE does help a teacher become more aware of the complexity of
> what
> > > they are asking students to do but I've often wondered about trying to
> be
> > > content neutral and focusing instruction on the basic cognitive
> > > prerequisites which  become the object of instruction.
> > >
> > > I posted this comment because it clearly articulated a tension I've
> > > wondered
> > > about in teaching "metacognitive strategies" directly as the object of
> > > activity in contrast to teaching specific content and leading students
> to
> > > metacognitive perspectives.  If I am able to get clearer in these
> > > contrasting approaches, I will be better able to talk to staffs about
> the
> > > distinctions.
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 4:47 PM, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Larry-- This dialogue goes back a long time and I defer to Alex K.
> The
> > > > attribution to focus on the impact of writing on thought does not
> > easily
> > > > square with what i recall the conclusions of Scribner and Cole and
> > > Vygotsky
> > > > does not emerge from that research as the theoretical lynch pin.
> > Perhaps
> > > > for
> > > > this reasons many of my Russian colleagues firmly disavow our
> > conclusions
> > > > regarding "the consequences of literacy."
> > > >
> > > > Perhaps Alex can be more informative.
> > > > mike
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 4:28 PM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Thought I would ask others to respond to the perspective of Kozulin
> > and
> > > > > Feuerstein's Mediated Learning Experience [MLE] paradigm and its
> > > contrast
> > > > > with the notion of ZPD.
> > > > > In the article I've attached on page 5 the authors state,
> > > > > "Both MLE and IE focus on the formation of the cognitive
> > prerequisites
> > > of
> > > > > learning in students.  The process of acquisition of learning
> > material
> > > > > requires certain cognitive prerequisites beyond that of the basic
> > > > functions
> > > > > of perception, memory, and attention.  The student is supposed to
> be
> > > able
> > > > > to
> > > > > DETECT the problem in the pool of raw data, to SELECT the relevant
> > > > > parameters, to FORM hypothesis and check them, and so on.  The
> > > inadequate
> > > > > school performance of the student can easily stem from
> > UNDERDEVELOPMENT
> > > > of
> > > > > these prerequisites rather than poor acquisition of specific rules
> or
> > > > > operations.....IE serves as an operational tool that allows
> teachers
> > to
> > > > > develop these previously lacking prerequisites in a SYSTEMATIC way.
> > > > > Though there is an obvious affinity between the Vygotskian notion
> of
> > > > > learning activity and the process of the formation of cognitive
> > > > > prerequisites discussed above, there is also a certain difference
> > > between
> > > > > the goals of MLE-based learning and learning according to the
> > > Vygotskian
> > > > > paradigm.  According to Feuerstein et al (1980), the acquisition of
> > MLE
> > > > > does
> > > > > not directly depend on either CONTENT of learning or MODALITY of
> > > > > interaction."
> > > > >
> > > > > This MLE paradigm is contrasted with Vygotsky's approach which
> > > emphasizes
> > > > > the modality of interection. The authors state,
> > > > >
> > > > > "Vygotsky (1978) and his followers (Cole and Scribner, 1974:
> Scribner
> > > > > 1997),
> > > > > on the contrary [to MLE] place considerable emphasis on changes
> > > occurring
> > > > > in
> > > > > the child's reasoning under the influence of the acquisition of
> > higher
> > > > > order
> > > > > symbolic tools, first of all literacy and writing.  For them, there
> > is
> > > a
> > > > > principal distinction between interactions carried out
> non-verbally,
> > > > > orally,
> > > > > and with the help of written symbolization.  Writing externalizes
> > > > thought,
> > > > > takes it out of its concrete context, and makes it available for
> > > > CONSCIOUS
> > > > > analysis..  Literacy skills require an analytic approach.  They are
> > > > > acquired
> > > > > consciously and deliberately, thus shifting cognitive functions
> from
> > > the
> > > > > natural responsive mode to the cultural deliberate mode.  One may
> > > > > legitimately pose the question of whether the same type of
> > > > 'transcendence'
> > > > > or mediation of meaning can be achieved with and without the
> > experience
> > > > of
> > > > > literacy." (p.6)
> > > > >
> > > > > The authors emphasize that Vygotsky's approach highlights that each
> > > > subject
> > > > > in school has its own conceptual structure the acquisition of which
> > > > depends
> > > > > on the theoretical mode of learning proposed by Vygotskians. In
> > > contrast
> > > > > the
> > > > > authors suggest MLE is a tool for developing the BASIC COGNITIVE
> > > > > PREREQUISITES which interface with the conceptual structure of the
> > > > > theoretical mode of learning subject matter, and
> > > > >
> > > > > "a proper borderline should be found at which the GENERAL FUNCTION
> > > > promoted
> > > > > by IE become absorbed and subjugated by this higher order
> conceptual
> > > > > structure.  Vygotsky (1978) indicated that 'natural' cognitive
> > > functions
> > > > do
> > > > > not disappear with the emergence of higher order literacy-based
> > > > functions,
> > > > > but become incorporated and transformed within the new conceptual
> > > > systems..
> > > > > One may say that, in a similar way, BASIC COGNITIVE PREREQUISITES
> > > become
> > > > > absorbed within the new conceptual systems.. Thus, the last outcome
> > for
> > > > > teacher training can be formulated as the necessity for a teacher
> to
> > > > > distinguish BETWEEN THE GENERAL COGNITIVE PREREQUISITES and those
> > > higher
> > > > > order cognitive systems which alone can support conceptual
> learning"
> > > > >
> > > > > I am trying to link these notions of BASIC cognitive prerequisites
> > with
> > > > > Lakoff and Johnson's notions of PRIMARY METAPHORS but that is for
> > > another
> > > > > discussion.  I was wondering what others thought about the
> assumption
> > > of
> > > > > basic cognitive prerequisites, [not perception, or attention which
> > are
> > > > more
> > > > > basic and general] that must be mediated PRIOR to theoretical
> > > conceptual
> > > > > systems of subject matter are taught.?
> > > > >
> > > > > I have my doubts that content can be separated and basic cognitive
> > > > > prerequisites taught PRIOR to teaching conceptual systems but MLE
> > > posits
> > > > > these underlying basic cognitive prerequisites must be in place
> > BEFORE
> > > > > teaching specific theoretical subject matter
> > > > >
> > > > > Larry
> > > > >
> > > > > Larry
> > > > >
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