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[xmca] ZPD and intersubjectivity

The discussion of zoped's or ZPD [or zebra's] is a fascinating discussion.
Andy , thanks for your clarifications of "ur" and ZBR.
Emily, your reflections on scaffolding and construction sites with clear
blueprints is a perspective I also have "seen" as an image or metaphor for
the creation or construction of zopeds. Lois, your reminding us that ZPD's
are language "games" and David's reminder that "games" have two key features
- imagination & rules- are critical lines of thought tp pursue and

My curiosity is when to consider zopeds as 2nd person contexts and when to
consider them as 3rd person contexts.

Another way to phrase this is to bring in the notion of "intersubjectivity"
to the conversation and how it links up with language games.  I recognize
I'm participating in a particular language game by asking this question and
it will keep shape-shifting as I post these reflections.

I will be referencing Daniel Hutto's ideas who is inspired by Jerome
Bruner's seminal book "Acts of Meaning" to understand how narratives and
language games are implicated in becoming human.  However, I want to focus
on how he differentiates "primary" and "secondary" intersubjectivity and how
they link up in his language game. I believe how we perceive [see] or
understand [know] the differences has implications for explaining zopeds. I
will be citing the Journal of Consciousness Studies, Vol 16, 2009, pp 9-39
titled Folk Psychology as Narrative Practice]

Hutto suggests primary intersubjectivity is highly contextual, ON-LINE modes
of engaging with minds and are distinct from and limited in comparison to
more advanced modes of intersubjective engagement in which narratives are
invoked. Often these primary engagements are referred to as action
"understandings" of intersubjective engagement. In fact the primary function
of mirroe neurons are explained in this way as a form of pragmatic,
Pre-conceptual, PRE-linquistic form of "understanding.    Hutto suggegts we
should have a more delimited explanation of the term "understanding" He
suggests we reserve the attributions of "understanding" exclusively for
language based games as forms of secondary interactivity which have their
own specific properties and complexities.

Hutto proposes another language game to explain primary intersubjectivity
[interplay]  Primary interplay depends on intentionally-directed
RESPONSIVENESS to the intentional activity of others as PERCEIVED IN AND
THROUGH their expressions. [which Hutto understands as natural signs] These
primary forms are not "reading" or "understanding" [which are 2 step
perception /ATTRIBUTION processes]  There is no pretence "as if" MODELLING
stage, followed by SUBSEQUENT attribution OF a mental state stage[  Hutto
sees attribution explanations as sociocultural narratives]  For Hutto neural
resonance is best understood as a kind of DIRECT on-line perception
[provided we conceive of perception as an ENACTIVE sensory-motor phenomenon]

Hutto suggests there is a pressing need for new ways of interpreting and
characterizing primary enactments.  His Narrative Practice Hypothesis is
reserved for the later developing language games of attribution

Hutto sees development through 3 lenses.  Basic [primary] capacities for
social navigation are about SHAPING others, transforming and being
transformed by others through embodied engagements [embodied mind]
The 2nd lens is when NON-linquistic joint attention where we share attention
with others.
The 3rd lens is narrative PRACTICES where we share "understandings"
[language games] with others.

These 3 lenses all emphasize a shared interactional basis to primary and
secondary intersubjectivity. these interactive approaches stress the
importance of language games in development BUT also stress the importance
- interaction based EMBODIED engagements &
- the role of institutional practices in: 1]SHAPING  2]SHARING AND
3]UNDERSTANDING  others intersubjectively.

I hope this brief reflection on the place of intersubjectivity [primary &
secondary] can be linked to our notions of language games [Hutto's narrative
sociocultural practices]. From Hutto's perspective zopeds extend beyond
"understanding" to more basic processes of "perception" as direct on-line
2nd person engagagements

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