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Re: [xmca] play and the imaginal
Artin
Thanks for your response.
I agree that my description is only one PARTICULAR example of co-ordination
and when I chose to intervene and INFLUEdult doNCE the direction of the
children's play I transformed the activity into a "Lesson"
Artin, I appreciate your perspective on play and your reflections on
cultural nuances about the structure of play across cultural groups.
I want to reflect further with you on this topic but first I want to give an
update on the situation with the children. I dropped into the Kindergarten
class this week and the teacher told me the relationships between the four
boys was transformed after participating in that shared activity and they
continue to play at recess and at centers.
The topic I want to explore [as an ethical and moral issue] is how we view
"influence".
If I "direct" a play activity as the adult who is interested in
"socio-relational" development I am confortable calling that process a
"lesson". However, as the adult is it "justified" for me to try to
"influence" the direction and co-ordination of the play as a developmental
intervention?? I believe this ethical dilemma results from our various
different values and orientations towards the issue of influence. The role
of "influence" is ambiguous and the place of influence varies significantly
according to different theories.
A common sense every day term I often use to reflect on my interactions with
students is the notion of "collecting". [This notion comes from attachment
theory]
Do I as the adult "collect" the students BEFORE I "direct" them?? Now the
terms "collecting" and "influence" often are perceived in negative ways as
factors that are harmful to the individual and society. {I would recommend
an article by Stephane Laurens titled "Social Influence: Representation,
Imagination, and Facts" in the journal "Journal for the Theory of Social
Behaviour 37:4 p401-413" if others are interested in thinking about
influence}
As I read Russian articles on Vygotsky I have the sense they have very
different notions on "influence" then North Americans and this may be one of
the areas where conceptual understanding becomes confused. Persons who view
influence in a negative light represent influence as turning the person into
an agent of the will and desire of the other [who influences us] This is a
vision of influence that is asymmetrical and complimentary in Hegel's
master/slave formation.
Artin I agree that this asymmetrical relationship of negative influence is
always a possibility and therefore all actions are moral actions. However,
as an adult is it possible to intervene and participate in children's play
activities and intentionally influence [plan a "lesson"] where the adult is
taking the lead but ethically struggling to encourage the children's
EMERGING AGENCY by co-ordinating SHARED IMAGINATION [which develops
reflective capacity as an EMERGENT CAPACITY]
I want to again say that I do NOT have a strong position on this topic of
influence, but do see it as a topic that is central to teaching in school
settings and a topic to explore further. I also am aware that what I suggest
may be intrusive to children's "free" play where they explore without adult
"lessons" but is there room for considering both types of activities as
developmental?
Artin, once again I want to emphasize that I appreciate your thoughts on
this matter as a person who has thought long and hard on this topic. I also
want to acknowledge Natalia's vimeo podcast on play as stimulating my
thoughts in this area.
Larry
Larry
Larry
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 8:51 AM, Goncu, Artin <goncu@uic.edu> wrote:
>
>
> Larry--
>
> Excited by your observations, I am writing to offer a few responses.
>
> First, there is a lot of evidence that 5-year-olds in the U.S coordinate
> their play interactions with one another without any need for adult
> guidance. Actually, children's efforts to seek mutuality or
> intersubjectivity which require coordination of play activity emerges
> around three years of age.
>
> Second, play varies a great deal as a function of the availability of the
> partners, toys, time etc. Therefore, I think it is important to observe
> children in different contexts to see whether or how they coordinate their
> actions in play instead of relying on one observation.
>
> Third, in my experience both as a former preschool teacher and as a
> researcher, I found out that preschool/kindergarten children have a pretty
> good notion of what is acceptable play when their partners are adults as
> opposed to their peers. That is, children do not do everything in play
> when they are playing with adults that they normally would do when they
> are with their peers. Based on this, it can be argued that the kind of
> coordination you have observed is a function of what the five-year-olds
> thought would be an appropriate thing for you to see. The kind of
> interaction and the resultant coordination you report looks more like a
> lesson than play coordination which is almost always what happens when
> adults become play partners. So, I take it only as one of many different
> kinds of coordinations rather than the only one..
>
> Fourth and finally, yes indeed, there are cultural differences in many
> aspects of play including social participation.
>
> Best, Artin
>
>
>
> On Wed, October 20, 2010 9:47 am, Larry Purss wrote:
> > Sue
> > I would agree that in other social arrangements there would be a
> different
> > relational pattern of 7 year olds guiding 3 year olds.
> > My question was more centrally asking about the "influence" of
> > historicized
> > development and enculturation IF we arrange to have only 5 year olds
> > interact with each other. I have observed many different groupings of 5
> > year olds at "centers" which is an institutionalized and "artifactual"
> > grouping which in Canada facilitates particular kinds of social
> relational
> > patterns where the 5 year olds "parallel" play. This is often explained
> > as
> > a developmental stage. However, if it is actually historicized
> > development,
> > then possibly when 5 year olds [with other patterns of enculturation] are
> > put in a "centers" structure may actually [at 5 years old] interact in
> > more
> > mutually shared patterns [without the assistance of 7 year old or adult
> > guidance] My question is about how a group of 5 year olds [without
> > guidance] orient and co-ordinate their activities in similar ways when
> put
> > in a "centers" environment [ie "parallel" play"]. An alternative
> > possibility is that after 5 years of being enculturated in particular
> > relational patterns of interaction these patterns are internalized and
> > therefore the activities at the "centers" is more co-ordinated [among the
> > 5
> > year olds without guidance]
> > Sue, when I entered that play world I was wondering about ontological and
> > historical development and similarities and differences in how 5 year
> olds
> > orient to co-ordinating activities when left to there own devices.
> >
> > Larry
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 3:24 AM, Sue March <suemarch@netspace.net.au>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Or was it because 5 year olds were playing with 5 year olds, and not as
> >> part
> >> of a multi-age community, with 7 year olds taking the lead and 3 year
> >> olds
> >> needing to be brought into the fold?
> >> Sue
> >>
> >>
> >> On 20/10/10 4:46 PM, "Larry Purss" <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > I want to think out loud about play in school settings.
> >> >
> >> > In September, when 5 year olds arrive at school, they are introduced
> >> in
> >> > Kindergarten to "centers" the spaces in Kindergarten classes where the
> >> > children go to play. The other day I sat down with 4 boys at the
> >> "playdough
> >> > center" Each child sat around the table with their own individual
> >> > playdough. They were inteent on their individual projects but were
> >> involved
> >> > in "parallel" play.
> >> > Now with my "vygotskian eyes" I reflected on my position as an adult
> >> who
> >> was
> >> > in a position to "lead" this activity and CO-ORDINATE the activity.
> >> However
> >> > I also was sensitive that I wanted the "agency" of the children to be
> >> > EXPRESSED.
> >> > The following steps were taken.
> >> > I noticed one boy was making cookies while the others were doing their
> >> own
> >> > thing. I asked the boy what he was making. He replied "cookies" [a
> >> social
> >> > representation from another activity system] I then asked how many
> >> cookies
> >> > he was making. "Three" he answered. I responded, but there are five
> >> of
> >> us
> >> > at the table [I was acting AS IF he was including all of us] He
> >> poceeded
> >> to
> >> > make 2 more. Then I asked if he was going to share the cookies? He
> >> replied
> >> > they needed to go in the oven first and brought them over to a book
> >> shelf. I
> >> > made the noise "tick, tick, tick" like a timer and one of the other
> >> boys
> >> > said "Ding" like the chime of the oven going off. We all laughed and
> >> the
> >> > other boys were slowly orienting and CO-ORDINATING with my and the
> >> boys
> >> > activity. Then the boy who was making a person from playdough took
> >> his
> >> > person over to the "oven" and one of the other boys said "Oh, a
> >> gingerbread
> >> > man" Then I heard all 4 boys go "tick, tick, tick" for a long time
> >> before
> >> > someone said "ding" and we all laughed. Soon all 4 boys were making
> >> cookies
> >> > with each one taking the lead and shifting the flow of activity BUT
> >> now
> >> the
> >> > activity was co-ordinated. When it was time to "share" the cookies I
> >> > insisted on proper manners [we waited till we all had a cookie before
> >> we
> >> ate
> >> > etc] This activity became more and more animated and definately the
> >> level
> >> of
> >> > language and interactivity was being scaffolded.
> >> >
> >> > Now for my question or musing.
> >> > Was the "individual" parallel play of these students a historically
> >> situated
> >> > form of activity because since birth, we in this culture share a
> >> notion
> >> of
> >> > "individual" play and the encapsulated self is implied in all our
> >> activity
> >> > OR is this form of "autistic like" play more of a universal phenomena
> >> and
> >> a
> >> > "stage" or layer which all children pass through. My question is going
> >> back
> >> > to the tension between socio-relational and socio-cultural analysis.
> >> > This simple activity I participated in [and as the adult took a
> >> leading
> >> > position] as I intentionally co-ordinated a shared activity I was
> >> creating
> >> > will lead development and social-relational activity in a certain
> >> > direction. It is my version of "right-relation"
> >> > Creating classroom "dramas" is another form of imaginal co-ordination
> >> and
> >> if
> >> > done systematically over time will lead to a different kind of person.
> >> > Having play centers where the children work out their relationships
> >> among
> >> > peers [and the dominant child takes the lead] is another form of
> >> > developmental social relations.
> >> >
> >> > I am curious if the way the 5 year olds were interacting BEFORE I sat
> >> down
> >> > with them [which seems so self-contained within their own individual
> >> space]
> >> > is a very specific historically formed pattern of "play activity" or
> >> is
> >> the
> >> > lack of co-ordination similar across multiple cultural settings when 5
> >> year
> >> > olds play without adult supervision?
> >> >
> >> > Larry
> >> > __________________________________________
> >> > _____
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> >>
> >>
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> >
>
>
> Artin Goncu, Ph.D
> Professor,
> Educational Psychology
> College of Education M/C 147
> 1040 W. Harrison St.
> Chicago, IL 60607
> http://education.uic.edu/epsy/browseour%20faculty.cfm
> (312) 996-5259
>
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