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Re: [xmca] Interview with David Kellogg on



Wow that was quick.
What time is there?
 
Robert Lake  Ed.D.
Assistant Professor
Social Foundations of Education 
Dept. of Curriculum, Foundations, and Reading
Georgia Southern University
P. O. Box 8144
Phone: (912) 478-5125
Fax: (912) 478-5382
Statesboro, GA  30460


 Democracy must be born anew in every generation, and education is its
midwife.
-John Dewey.


>>> Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> 10/12/2010 9:23 AM >>>
Well I just found that "Philosophy in the Fesh" contained nothing new 
except endless truisms and banal caricatures of competing views. Lakoff

does have interesting things to say from time to time, but I think 
"Metaphors" contained most of what he has to say.

Your other question is far too large for an email exchange but I think

that Leontyev was taking Vygotsky in a necessary, legitimate and 
fruitful direction, but because he did not understand Vygotsky's basic

methodology, he failed, and his work, in my opinion, needs to be
redone, 
even though the basic proposal for a theory of activity is completely 
right. I would tend to make a similar assessment of Engestrom's 
partially successful effort to solve the problems in Leotyev's theory.

As others will know, I like to read Hegel through the lens of Activity

Theory, which is after all traced to Herder, Fichte, Hess and Marx, so

it is reasonable to suppose that Activity is implicit in Hegel; in fact

Hegel really does not make sense other than by interpreting it in the 
light of Activity Theory, in my opinion.

Bruce Jones is the webmaster for lchc.

Andy

Robert Lake wrote:
> Hi Andy,
> Yes I am willing to do a short video once I come to dialectic
> understanding for myself.
> I love Metaphors We Live By but now I am curious to see what your
take
> is on his later work. Do you mean Philosophy in the Flesh? 
>  
> I also would like to know what you think of the Leontiev/Vygotsky
> controversy and what you see as the future of Vygotskian studies.
i.e.
> what is left for us to discover.
>  
> Thanks for writing and thank-you for all of your amazing work in
making
> public so many treasures in a way that is creating new and ongoing
> dialogue.
>  
> RL
>  
> P.S. Who is Bruce?
>  
>  
> Robert Lake  Ed.D.
> Assistant Professor
> Social Foundations of Education 
> Dept. of Curriculum, Foundations, and Reading
> Georgia Southern University
> P. O. Box 8144
> Phone: (912) 478-5125
> Fax: (912) 478-5382
> Statesboro, GA  30460
>
>
>  Democracy must be born anew in every generation, and education is
its
> midwife.
> -John Dewey.
>
>
>   
>>>> Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> 10/11/2010 7:36 PM >>>
>>>>         
> Robert,
> 1. Like to do a short video on Vygotsky's use of metaphor?
> 2. Peter's paper will appear in MCA next year and David's will be on
> the 
> LCHC website soon. (Bruce?)
> 3. What do you make of "Metaphors we live by" by George Lakoff. I
think
>
> it is a great book but Lakoff seemed to get stuck at that point and
his
>
> subsequent writings very disappointing.
>
> Andy
>
> Robert Lake wrote:
>   
>> Dear David,
>> First of all I want to thank you and Andy for the clear and astute 
>> reading and rendering of  Vygotsky's Psychology of Art.
>>  
>> I loved every second of the interview, even hearing and seeing Andy
>> laugh!
>>  
>> Secondly, when you shared LSV's notion that a work of art is
>> irreducible I thought of metaphor again.  For example, I.A.
Richards
>> wrote in 1936 that... 
>>  
>> “Thought is metaphoric, and proceeds by comparison, and the
>>     
> metaphors
>   
>> of language derive therefrom” (p. 94).
>>  
>>  In other words, he believed that at the base of all thinking,
there
>>     
> is
>   
>> a metaphoric relationship.  Richards takes this one step further
when
>>     
> he
>   
>> suggests that metaphors are “cognitively irreducible” (Johnson,
1981,
>>     
> p.
>   
>> 19) and cannot be reduced to statements of literal meaning.  
>>  
>> A metaphoric expression therefore becomes a newly created vehicle
of
>> meaning which loses potency  as well as the possiblity of providing

>> personal voice and agency when it is made into a literal statement
>>     
> from
>   
>> its  component parts. For example, what would happen to this poem?
>>  
>> FOG
>> by: Carl Sandburg 
>> The fog comes 
>> on little cat feet. 
>> It sits looking 
>> over harbor and city 
>> on silent haunches 
>> and then moves on. 
>>  
>> Thanks again,
>> RL
>>  
>> P.S. Is there a copy of your paper on this posted somewhere?
>>  
>>  
>> Robert Lake  Ed.D.
>> Assistant Professor
>> Social Foundations of Education 
>> Dept. of Curriculum, Foundations, and Reading
>> Georgia Southern University
>> P. O. Box 8144
>> Phone: (912) 478-5125
>> Fax: (912) 478-5382
>> Statesboro, GA  30460
>>
>>
>>
>>  Democracy must be born anew in every generation, and education is
>>     
> its
>   
>> midwife.
>> -John Dewey.
>>
>>   
>>     
>>>>> David Kellogg <vaughndogblack@yahoo.com> 10/10/2010 9:08 PM >>>
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>> Thanks, Nancy. And above all thanks to Andy, not just for making
the
>> resource available but for providing a long list of provocative
>> questions that had me tugging my beard rather more than I should
>>     
> have.
>   
>> I was telling Andy that I started the whole project with some
>>     
> contempt
>   
>> for Leontiev's lukewarm preface, where he says that Vygotsky
himself
>>     
> did
>   
>> not want the book published, but that it was now a historical
>>     
> document
>   
>> for the understanding of Soviet science so we have to get it out
>>     
> there
>   
>> anyway. 
>>
>> Ivanov, on the other hand, says that the book is a complete
>>     
> manuscript
>   
>> readied for publication by Vygotsky himself (and Ivanov, by the
way,
>>     
> is
>   
>> pretty harshly criticized, so it is with great generosity of spirit
>>     
> that
>   
>> he champions this book and writes a very warm commentary to it).
>>   
>> But perhaps Leontiev's ungenerous preface is right in this much:
the
>> most exciting ideas in it are completely undeveloped:
>>
>> a) The hidden link between aesthetics and ethics. Vygotsky REALLY
>> believes this: art's about the GOOD LIFE, and it can help us get
>>     
> there, 
>   
>> not just in our imagination but in real ontogenesis and even
>> sociogenesis.
>>
>> b) The true analytical unit of art. It just CAN'T be the "aesthetic
>> contradiction". That's like saying that the analytical unit of
>>     
> chemistry
>   
>> is the "chemical contradiction". Feh.
>>
>> c) The dramatization of egocentric speech in Hamlet. It's a
>>     
> borderline
>   
>> piece, written somewhere between Revenge fantasies and
psychological
>> novels, and marvelously contradictory for that reason. It's the
>> self-directed soliloquies that made it totally different! When "To
be
>>     
> or
>   
>> not to be" is translated into Korean, it's just "To live or to
die".
>>     
> But
>   
>> of course you can read it exactly other way: "to be" is to take up
>>     
> arms,
>   
>> and then not to be, and "not to be" is to bow your head, and go on
>> living. Only human thought processes have this kind of lyrical
>>     
> quality;
>   
>> the perception processes on which revenge fantasies and horror
shows
>>     
> of
>   
>> the time were based were shallow, one dimensional things in
>>     
> comparison.
>   
>> d)  The "social technique of emotion" and the teaching on the
>>     
> emotions.
>   
>> Vygotsky's on to something here, but what? Just as it's hard to
>>     
> imagine
>   
>> analyzing the "psychology" of a work of art (how do we do a
>> psychological analysis of something that does not have a mind?)
it's
>> really hard to imagine a technique of emotion without a "what for"
>>     
> and
>   
>> not simply a "what with". 
>>
>> It's tempting to say that a) is really the answer to d)! But if
it's
>>     
> an
>   
>> answer, it's not a direct one; there is, and there should be, a
>>     
> whole
>   
>> book in between. The problem is that Leontiev was really right;
this
>> book is not that one. Not yet.
>>
>> David Kellogg
>> Seoul National University of Education
>>
>> --- On Sun, 10/10/10, Nancy Mack <nancy.mack@wright.edu> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Nancy Mack <nancy.mack@wright.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Interview with David Kellogg on Vygotsky's
>> Psychology of Art
>> To: ablunden@mira.net, "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
>> <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>> Date: Sunday, October 10, 2010, 11:06 AM
>>
>>
>> Andy,
>> I cannot thank you enough for this wonderful opportunity to hear
two
>> scholars interpret the Psychology of Art.
>>
>> These videos are a wonderful source for others who are interested
in
>> Vygotsky.
>>
>> I greatly enjoyed them and thanks to both David and Peter for
>> permitting these talks to be shared.
>>
>>
>>
>> Nancy Mack
>>
>> Professor of English 
>> Wright State University
>>
>> http://www.wright.edu/~nancy.mack 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>
>> Date: Sunday, October 10, 2010 5:07 am
>> Subject: [xmca] Interview with David Kellogg on Vygotsky's
>>     
> Psychology
>   
>> of Art
>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>>
>>   
>>     
>>> Our collection of videos at http://vimeo.com/groups/39473/videos 
>>>
>>> now has an interview with David Kellogg on Vygotsky's Psychology 
>>> of Art
>>>
>>>      http://vimeo.com/groups/39473/videos/15686944 
>>>
>>> Peter's interview http://vimeo.com/groups/39473/videos/14844396 
>>> and 
>>> David's are not a debate, or even a dialogue really, but two 
>>> different 
>>> views of the same work of Vygotsky, by two different people. But 
>>> together they bring out the richness of the topic. Anyone else 
>>> want to 
>>> add their own view?
>>>
>>> Please enjoy,
>>> Andy
>>>
>>> Andy Blunden wrote:
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> So far as I can tell, vimeo.com just offers a server to store 
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>> and 
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> stream your video. Anything beyond that we need to put on a 
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>> server 
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> elsewhere and link to the videos on vimeo, I think.
>>>>
>>>> There is certainly a need to have a page(s) (e.g. on 
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>> lchc.ucsd.edu) 
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> where the material is listed, organised, and described. 
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>> Abstracts of 
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> the talks are needed, because on vimeo we have only a few 
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>> lines to 
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> describe the content. But that page I think cannot be on 
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>> vimeo.com. 
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> vimeo does have a blog capacity, and I think David Kellogg is 
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>> so far 
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> the only person who has made use of it.
>>>>
>>>> Were we to go down that road, issues that arise are (1) 
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>> Keeping the 
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> information up to date as new videos are added, (2) Having the 
>>>> authority to categorise and prioritise videos. At the moment, 
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>> the 
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> other side of lack of organisation and information, is that 
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>> the vimeo 
>>>     
>>>       
>>>> page is very egalitarian and democratic. :)
>>>>
>>>>    http://vimeo.com/groups/39473/videos 
>>>>
>>>> Andy
>>>>
>>>> mike cole wrote:
>>>>       
>>>>         
>>>>> Wow, Andy-- I had no idea that so many interesting videos had 
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>>> already 
>>>     
>>>       
>>>>> been
>>>>> collected already, and just in time for Natalia's 
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>>> class!!  Now THAT I 
>>>     
>>>       
>>>>> call
>>>>> a bit of superb international collective action!! A well 
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>>> oiled 
>>>     
>>>       
>>>>> machine, a
>>>>> sleek and swift social organism.....
>>>>>
>>>>> One question.
>>>>> Might there be a way of people being able to see the list of 
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>>> all the 
>>>     
>>>       
>>>>> topics
>>>>> as they open the page, or a single button they could press 
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>>> that 
>>>     
>>>       
>>>>> brings up
>>>>> the list? As it is, people might overlook at LOT of interest, 
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>>> and that
>>>     
>>>       
>>>>> problem will just get worse as the collection becomes richer.
>>>>> mike
>>>>>
>>>>> PS_  For those who wonder what I am talking about, check out
>>>>> http://vimeo.com/groups/39473/videos/15209886 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu 
>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   
>>>>>         
>>>>>           
>>> -- 
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -------
>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/ 
>>> Videos: http://vimeo.com/user3478333/videos 
>>> Book: http://www.brill.nl/scss 
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> xmca mailing list
>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu 
>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca 
>>>     
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> xmca mailing list
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>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu 
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>>
>>   
>>
>>     
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   
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>>   
>>     
>
>   

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/ 
Videos: http://vimeo.com/user3478333/videos 
Book: http://www.brill.nl/scss 


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